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Archaeologica.org • View topic - Roman DNA

Roman DNA

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

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Re: Roman DNA

Postby Simon21 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:28 am

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Re: Roman DNA

Postby Simon21 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:50 am

The end of the Roman Empire is fraught with controversy. It has been pointed out numerous times that what does such a phrase mean? First off it didn't mean the end of Rome - East Rome went on for another 1000 years. It did not mean an end to taxes or roman law and it didn't mean an end to Roman Christianity. It does seem to have mean an end to overarching political control, but again though well establsihed in the fourth century this had been missing in the third.

Recently much emphasis has been put on the destruction wrought by Christian mobs both on buildings and people. The hideous death of Hypatia and the massacre of Jews in Thessalonica might only be tastes of a much more widespread phenomenon. If it were possible to travel to 400 it is possible that one would see widespread destruction in towns, but it would not have been caused by the bararians.

In Britain there is not much evidence for this it has to be said. Some ritual wells at Silbury Hill were deliberately filled in and the London Mithraeum appears to have been destroyed, but not much else, Lydney (restored apparently by Julian the Apostate) was not sacked.

Britain was certainly christian as far as can be told, Birling refers to reurbished graves in a cemetery in Hampshire (?). There were refurbished paths as well to the graves indicating people came to honour them - she speculates they could have been saints and we are seeing the evidence of pilgrimages. There is also St Patrick who doesn't mention pagans and nether does Gildas though he certainly didn't think much of his fellow British christians.
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Re: Roman DNA

Postby Minimalist » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:55 pm

Agreed and the date of 476 when Odoacer deposed the last Western Roman emperor is merely a convenience. The demise of the Western Empire was a long, drawn out process. They got a brief break with the victory over the Huns at the Catalaunian Plains but in fairness there were probably as many if not more Visigoths under Theodoric present. That was merely 25 years before the official end of the Empire. The situation sort of reminds me of the end of the USSR. It was a charade and all someone had to do was kick the door in.

Glad you mentioned the xtian atrocities in the 5th century. There's a fine book called the Jesus Wars by J. P. Jenkins that talks about the turmoil in the Eastern Empire because of supposed doctrinal disputes but really more about who would be the power in the church.

Had Theodosius II not fallen off his friggin' horse we might not be putting up with any of this trinity crap we have today. Anyway, I highly recommend the book.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Roman DNA

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:22 pm

I am working on a guide book to ruins here in Ohio, but while I am waiting on a pdf download -

Returning to Lullsingstone Villa:
ww.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/lullingstone-roman-villa/history/research/#fn 8

Do either of you know if the Britons were using outhouses during these times, or whether they used indoor closet furniture and chamber pots,
then distributing the contents a fertilizer?

If they used outhouses, they would be a good place to look for written materials (and DNA.)
So would wells. Certainly they must have had wells, didn't they?

whoo boy - "The possible Gnostic elements identified by Perring[8] that indicate that there are issues not only regarding the relationship of paganism and Christianity, but also with regard to the nature of the Christian belief represented."

Based on Mesoamerican parallels , one may very well expect a local adaptation, a hybrid of Pauline Christianity with Druidism, in other words, say, Pelagianism.

Simon, I was surprised by your comment on Patrick and the Druids - this is a matter of intense study for some people
(most definitely not me, as one controversy at a time is more than enough, thank you).
see:
https://www.saintpatrickcentre.com/hist ... 88c1e-32ff

An interesting series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tK5WrCseFYI
ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f21eVcY3pw (this fellow from Oxford could deconstruct The Life of Columba to its sources)
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Roman DNA

Postby Simon21 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:14 am

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Re: Roman DNA

Postby Simon21 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:53 am

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Re: Roman DNA

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:48 am

E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Roman DNA

Postby Simon21 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:00 am

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Re: Roman DNA

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:49 am

Hi simon -

I am half a world away, intensely working through far different materials,
and my poor Latin was pretty well wiped out by my stroke.
But I seem to remember that Reeve's translation of the Life of Columba was available online,
and if you want to take a crack at deconstructing it,
and retrieving the Annals that were used in its construction, please do.
I put such work at the level of that fellow from Oxford who appeared in that video,
but why not take a go at it?
There is an easy difference between "angels" and "angles".

My view at the time of my essay was that it was written to replace the earlier Life of Columba, which showed "Pelagian tendencies".
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Roman DNA

Postby Minimalist » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:49 pm

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Location: Arizona

Re: Roman DNA

Postby Simon21 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:36 am

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Re: Roman DNA

Postby Minimalist » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:32 am

BTW, if you can't find that book, I have an electronic copy I can email to you.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15589
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Roman DNA

Postby Simon21 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:38 am

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Re: Roman DNA

Postby Minimalist » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:24 pm

Good stuff. I love the gangs of felonious monks!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15589
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Roman DNA

Postby Simon21 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:42 am

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