Gobekli Tepe

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

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Beagle
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Gobekli Tepe

Post by Beagle » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:11 pm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbc ... 03/FOREIGN
Compared with Stonehenge, they are humble affairs. None of the circles that have been excavated, four out of an estimated 20, is more than 100 feet across. Two of the slender, T-shaped pillars tower at least three feet above their peers.



What makes them remarkable are the carved reliefs of boars, foxes, lions, birds, snakes and scorpions that cover them, and their age. Dated at about 9500 B.C., these stones are 5,500 years older than the first cities of Mesopotamia and 7,000 years older than Stonehenge.



Nevermind wheels or writing, the people who erected them did not even have pottery or domesticated wheat. They lived in villages, but were hunters, not farmers.



"Everybody used to think only complex, hierarchical civilizations could build such monumental sites and that they only came about with the invention of agriculture," said Ian Hodder, a Stanford University anthropology professor who has directed digs at Catalhoyuk, Turkey's most-famous Neolithic site, since 1993.
Michelle has posted this article in the Newsroom, about this very ancient temple complex in Turkey. It dates to 9,500 BC, which most researchers say is pre-agricultural. We've all read about this site but it hasn't had it's own thread. There is a lot of info and pics on the internet that we can add here.

These people obviously had an organized religion of sorts, and we have an opportunity to observe the earliest manifestation of human religion, which may be hard wired into our brains. :wink:

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:21 pm

They don't say how they dated the site, though.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:42 pm

I'll see if I can find anything on that Min. Tonight maybe.

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Post by Minimalist » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:05 pm

If you can, great. I'll be out tonight. I'll check in later.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Barracuda
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Post by Barracuda » Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:16 pm

I'll put that on my list of places to visit if I ever get back to Turkey

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CShark
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Post by CShark » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:06 pm

What a truly amazing find.

A little digging turned up these:

http://www.thothweb.com/ftopicp-60552.html

This one is much better -> http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/artic ... erview.htm

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Cognito
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Dating

Post by Cognito » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:11 pm

Dating Gobekli Tepe:

There are a number of radiocarbon dates (presented with one standard deviation errors and calibrations to BCE):

Lab-Number / Date BP / Cal BCE / Context
Ua-19561 / 8430±80 / 7560-7370 / enclosure C
Ua-19562 / 8960±85 / 8280-7970 / enclosure B
Hd-20025 / 9452±73 / 9110-8620 / Layer III
Hd-20036 / 9559±53 / 9130-8800 / Layer III

The Hd samples are from charcoal in the lowest levels of the site and would date the active phase of occupation. The Ua samples come from pedogenic carbonate coatings on pillars and only indicate a time after the site was abandoned- the terminus ante quem.

Source: http://www.canew.org/uppermesop14cbox.html
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Post by Beagle » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:02 pm

Hey Cogs, thanks for the dating. Wiki has the same numbers, and a pretty good review of Gobleki Tepi.

The original article says that the two statues are facing the southeast. I wonder what that's all about.

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Post by Minimalist » Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:54 pm

The original article says that the two statues are facing the southeast. I wonder what that's all about.

Mecca?

:wink:
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Cognito
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Statues

Post by Cognito » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:30 am

The original article says that the two statues are facing the southeast.
Beags, the site is an ongoing archaeological dig with more to be found. Don't read too much into anything until it's complete. 8)
Natural selection favors the paranoid

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Post by kbs2244 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:11 am

Would South East be the raising of the Sun at a particular hunting season?

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Post by woodrabbit » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:36 pm

Whew.....!?! Thanks for turning me on to this site. Check out this film on youtube, in german but the visuals really make you wonder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU2qwoMfq-U&NR=1
Its more complicated than it seems.

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:46 pm

Thank you for that Woodrabbit. You're right, the German narrator didn't matter a bit. Great pics.

Beagle
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Re: Statues

Post by Beagle » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:53 pm

Cognito wrote:
The original article says that the two statues are facing the southeast.
Beags, the site is an ongoing archaeological dig with more to be found. Don't read too much into anything until it's complete. 8)
Thanks Cogs, but that just wouldn't be like me. :lol:
Actually though, I'm not reading anything in to it, I'm fascinated about the site and I'm "wondering " about a lot of things.

I am anxious to see what alignments, if any, that they may find, as there seems to be an eery similarity to stonehenge. And especially how formalized their spiritual rituals and beliefs were. This will be exciting to watch. 8)

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Post by Interested Onlooker » Tue Apr 29, 2008 8:02 pm

There's been references to Nevali Cori, a contempory site to Gobekli Tepe. I went to Google Earth to see where the site was in relation to Gobekli Tepe and found it 20-22 miles to the NW.

I was surprised to see that Google Earth was pointing to the site within a lake. Unfortunately, Nevali Cori has been at the bottom of a dammed up Euphrates river since 1994. Bummer.

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