Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

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Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by Minimalist » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:05 pm

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic ... uman_genus
Most paleoanthropologists have favored an African origin for the potential human ancestor Homo erectus. But new evidence shows the species occupied a West Asian site called Dmanisi from 1.85 million to 1.77 million years ago, at the same time or slightly before the earliest evidence of this humanlike species in Africa, say geologist Reid Ferring of the University of North Texas in Denton and his colleagues.

The new Dmanisi discoveries point to an Asian homeland for H. erectus, the scientists propose online June 6 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by john » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:02 am

My dear sir,

I respectfully disagree. True to form

Das Klub will merely go "ape".

As in

Ape! Ape! Ape! Ape! Ape! Ape! Ape!


john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by kbs2244 » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:02 am

You have to remember the time frames these guys work with compared to the generation time span of the creatures.

They consider half a million years as nothing.

But a whole lot of guys could do a whole lot of walking around in half a million years.

E.P. Grondine

Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by E.P. Grondine » Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:04 pm

http://malaysiabreakingnews.blogspot.co ... r-her.html

Homo Heidelbergensis in Malaysia at 1.83 MYA

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by Minimalist » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:43 pm

E.P., I'm borrowing your link for a similar discussion at Atheistforums.org.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by oldarchystudent » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:49 am

OK so what exactly is going on here?

More and more I 'm seeing timelines being pushed back, from overturning Clovis-first to finding Hiedelbergensis in Malaysia? Schock's redating of the Sphinx, the questions posed by Gobekli Tepe, it goes on and on.

What does the timeline of human evolution and civilization look like now? I'm thinking everything we thought we knew about history is pretty much down the toilet, and I find that very exciting.

E.P. Grondine

Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by E.P. Grondine » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:12 am

Watch yourself on Shoch's redating of the Sphinx and Bauval/West/Hancock's redating of the Pyramids. Maybe, but there was no one grand civilization that taught all the ignorant other people.

What's going on in SE Asia is that excavation is finally occurring there, now that the chaos of colonialism is at an end.

The scholars who maintained the clovis first paradigm are passing on, while excavations are revealing early pre-clovis. Think of it as a radio-carbon revolution.

One thing that's going on is DNA studies.
Another thing that is going on are impact studies.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by oldarchystudent » Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:36 am

I read Schoch's Voyages of the Pyramid Builders. While I was impressed with the evidence for the redating of the Sphinx, I'm far from sold on his view of diffusionism.

Was there a proto-civilization that spawned some or all of the others? Maybe, some of the theories are tantalizing, but I haven't seen anything that convinces me yet. I'd love to see conclusive evidence if it's out there.

My hope is that we learn from the pre-Clovis finds, and dig a little deeper (literally) when investigating paeleo sites, here in North America and around the world. I am concerned that the Clovis-first paradigm led archaeologists to stop digging when they came to the bottom of the Clovis horizon. I think a lot of stuff was probably waiting for them if they had just gone down another foot or two...

I'm in two minds about diffusionism, but I am convinced that civilization is older than we say it is. I get frustrated when Gobekli Tepe is interpreted as evidence that hunter-gatherers were also hanging around in the area to build something monumental like that. I think you have to reach a state of sedentism before you can handle something of that scale.
My karma ran over my dogma.

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by Minimalist » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:48 am

I think you have to reach a state of sedentism before you can handle something of that scale.

What you need is a) the political power to organize people for a project and b) the population needed to pull it off in the first place. No one has as yet demonstrated that H/G models can produce that sort of excess population.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

E.P. Grondine

Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by E.P. Grondine » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:23 am

oldarchystudent wrote:I read Schoch's Voyages of the Pyramid Builders. While I was impressed with the evidence for the redating of the Sphinx, I'm far from sold on his view of diffusionism.

Was there a proto-civilization that spawned some or all of the others? Maybe, some of the theories are tantalizing, but I haven't seen anything that convinces me yet. I'd love to see conclusive evidence if it's out there.

My hope is that we learn from the pre-Clovis finds, and dig a little deeper (literally) when investigating paeleo sites, here in North America and around the world. I am concerned that the Clovis-first paradigm led archaeologists to stop digging when they came to the bottom of the Clovis horizon. I think a lot of stuff was probably waiting for them if they had just gone down another foot or two...

I'm in two minds about diffusionism, but I am convinced that civilization is older than we say it is. I get frustrated when Gobekli Tepe is interpreted as evidence that hunter-gatherers were also hanging around in the area to build something monumental like that. I think you have to reach a state of sedentism before you can handle something of that scale.
Okay, in my usual way I will come down from the mountain and deliver the truth.

Man had maritime technology very early on. This led to an increase in food sources and the exchange of technological improvements within the navigation area. Not only do you have sea food added to the diet, the use of other semi-domesticates began.

There were several particularly good environments for advance. One was SE Asia, in particular the coast of India, the other being the Black Sea and the lakes that existed before the YD. As the YD the Black Sea flooded following the YD impacts, one advanced people spread out into the Mediterranean Sea, then to the seaboard of the Atlantic Ocean. The people living in the Black Sea had nearly speciated.

That is why you have Gobekli Tepe.

E.P. Grondine

Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by E.P. Grondine » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:35 pm

BTW, SE hominid evolution was set out in "Man and Impact in the Americas", a volume which many refered to at the time as pseudo-scientific nonsense.

Its author was regularly called a liar, a crank, and/or a thief.

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by Cognito » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:58 pm

Man had maritime technology very early on. This led to an increase in food sources and the exchange of technological improvements within the navigation area. Not only do you have sea food added to the diet, the use of other semi-domesticates began.
Obviously, people always settled near or on sources of fresh water, a primary requirement for life. Water is also the transport system when no roads are available. Could pre-YD humans build roads? Yes. Would they have been economically feasible? No.
There were several particularly good environments for advance. One was SE Asia, in particular the coast of India, the other being the Black Sea and the lakes that existed before the YD. As the YD the Black Sea flooded following the YD impacts, one advanced people spread out into the Mediterranean Sea, then to the seaboard of the Atlantic Ocean. The people living in the Black Sea had nearly speciated.
Interesting comment regarding near speciation. Half the world's haplogroups originated in the Black Sea-Caucasus areas and dispersed worldwide with the post-LGM floods. They didn't disperse rapidly by walking.
Natural selection favors the paranoid

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by oldarchystudent » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:37 am

My karma ran over my dogma.

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Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by Minimalist » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:42 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:BTW, SE hominid evolution was set out in "Man and Impact in the Americas", a volume which many refered to at the time as pseudo-scientific nonsense.

Its author was regularly called a liar, a crank, and/or a thief.


Now, E.P. be fair. That is not exactly what I said!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

E.P. Grondine

Re: Oh, Boy.....The Club Will Go Apeshit if This Pans Out!

Post by E.P. Grondine » Tue Aug 23, 2011 1:12 pm

Minimalist wrote:
E.P. Grondine wrote:BTW, SE hominid evolution was set out in "Man and Impact in the Americas", a volume which many refered to at the time as pseudo-scientific nonsense.

Its author was regularly called a liar, a crank, and/or a thief.
Now, E.P. be fair. That is not exactly what I said!
My apologies for not including your own first responses in the list, min.
You drew a completely inaccurate parallels between Ancient Near East text sources and other peoples' myth systems and Native American text and oral sources, and then based your assessment on it.
I'm looking for a single word to insert into this little list of adjectives, something like"fool".
Any suggestions?

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