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fired pottery

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:52 am
by kbs2244
From today’s news page:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 75062.html

It says the figure was "fired pottery" and 6000 years old.
It a "kiln site."

When did we begin firing our pottery?
Isn't that considered a big step?
I am pretty sure it is used as a dating procedure at Western American sites.
The previous technique of baskets leaked and unfired pottery turned back into mud.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:46 pm
by Minimalist
I recall reading that Jomon Pottery from Japan dates back to the 14th millenia BC but even this was a technique imported from the mainland of Asia. Can't recall where I saw that though.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:56 pm
by kbs2244
Is this going to become one of those “independently discovered” things?
Some casual research shows it showing up at different times all over the globe.

"Independently discovered" or traveling merchants/hunters/tradesmen/shamans/fishermen/ outlaws and exiles showing the locals a little trick to make life easier?

Glaze seems to be another, wholly different, thing.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:16 pm
by Digit
Once you had fire 'firing' of clay would logically follow.
Any small timber pulled from clayey ground then burned would give a hint of the possibilities.

Roy.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:13 pm
by JGF

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:19 pm
by JGF

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:28 pm
by kbs2244
So there can be as much as 10,000 years from one area to another?
And Europe seems to be at the end of the spread?

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:18 pm
by JGF
I posted both articles because they are quite different. Fired clay appears to have been used to create symbolic objects, such as figurines, long before it was used to create utilitarian objects such as pots or bowls. That doesn't necessarily mean people weren't using other materials for storing or carrying water, for instance. It is hypothesized that extensive and elaborate use of bamboo for storing and/or channeling water may predate pottery, so might skin bags -- these would not preserve in the archeological record the way pottery would.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:21 pm
by E.P. Grondine
Perhaps unless you're in a sedentary society, pottery may not have advantages over other technologies for storage and cooking.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:59 pm
by Minimalist
Pottery is heavier and far more fragile than, say, an animal skin for carrying water, or a reed basket for food.

One would have to question the utility of pottery for an H/G group.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:06 pm
by JGF
Exactly the prevailing wisdom -- HG's aren't supposed to use pottery b/c it's heavy & fragile. But it keeps turning up pre-agriculture in China with really early dates. Weird.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:41 pm
by Digit
Which is based on the assumption that H/G groups were always on the move, but is that so?
With a low population and a rich enough area, would they keep moving?
I doubt it.

Roy.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:55 pm
by dannan14
Digit wrote:Which is based on the assumption that H/G groups were always on the move, but is that so?
With a low population and a rich enough area, would they keep moving?
I doubt it.

Roy.
They may have taken many hunting or trading trips though the year...especially in Summer, but even without agriculture it makes a lot of sense to have a permanent settlement whereever you find a nice cliff overhang or cave. It never sat well with me that H/G is often used synonymously with nomad.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:09 pm
by Minimalist
My guess is they would follow the animals. If animals migrated the humans would have migrated after them.

Re: fired pottery

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:04 am
by dannan14
Minimalist wrote:My guess is they would follow the animals. If animals migrated the humans would have migrated after them.
Or they would have learned the migration routes within several days travel from their home as well as what times of year they should send out scouts to look for the herds. That would allow them to plan large, efficient hunts since they would have somewhere to store dried meat, skins, furs, usable bones, sinew, stomachs, bladders, etc.