Who wrote the Bible?

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E.P. Grondine

Who wrote the Bible?

Post by E.P. Grondine » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:43 am

Hi min -

This should snap you out of it. I just read "Who Wrote the Bible" by Richard Elliot Friedman, and plan to use his analysis in the future.

It pretty much answered the who, when, and from what questions for me on the materials of interest to me.

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Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by Minimalist » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:35 am

Hello, E.P.

Friedman is a bit dated and the Documentary Hypothesis has taken a number of hits in recent years. Most notably perhaps this one.

http://www.equinoxpub.com/equinox/books ... p?bkid=139
The authors argue that the scholarly use of language in dating biblical texts, and even the traditional standpoint on the chronological development of biblical Hebrew, require a thorough re-evaluation, and propose a new perspective on linguistic variety in biblical Hebrew. ‘Early’ Biblical Hebrew and ‘Late’ Biblical Hebrew do not represent different chronological periods in the history of biblical Hebrew, but instead represent co-existing styles of literary Hebrew throughout the biblical period.
The problem I have always had with the DH - or the Wellhausen hypothesis to credit its founder - is that it relies on a book to demonstrate the origins of that book. And we don't even have an original of the book. We don't even have a Hebrew copy of a copy of a copy until we get down to the Hasmonean period. If you only deal with the book Star Wars it is possible to prove that Luke Skywalker blew up the death star.

Oddly though, (or perhaps not...the archaeology on the growth of Judah seems quite firm) Friedman seems more consistent with what Finkelstein proposed in "The Bible Unearthed." This stuff arose ( or at least a broad outline of it arose) during the 7th century BC by attributing it to the reign of Hezekiah. At least we have independent attestation that Hezekiah ( and Manesseh) were actual kings of Judah....which is more than can be said for Finkelstein's homeboy "Josiah."

Anyway, go ahead. Could be fun.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by MichelleH » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:15 am

Uh oh.....you poked the bear..... :lol: :lol:
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Red meat, cheese, tobacco, and liquor...it works for me ~ Anthony Bourdain

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Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by Farpoint » Wed Aug 15, 2012 10:46 am

MichelleH wrote:Uh oh.....you poked the bear..... :lol: :lol:
Well, it is one way to get membership up and my name off the bottom of the page.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

E.P. Grondine

Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by E.P. Grondine » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:54 am

Hi Michelle -

I figured that would work - and look, the news is up to date as well.

E.P. Grondine

Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by E.P. Grondine » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:59 am

min -

We now have OT copies from Qumran as well.

You know, just one good clay archive or a few stone inscriptions from somewhere in the area could clear up so many questions.

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Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by MichelleH » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:14 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:Hi Michelle -

I figured that would work - and look, the news is up to date as well.

Unfortunately work and day to day life get in the way from time to time......some of us still work..... :cry:


Now back to the topic at hand!
We've Got Fossils - We win ~ Lewis Black

Red meat, cheese, tobacco, and liquor...it works for me ~ Anthony Bourdain

Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

E.P. Grondine

Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by E.P. Grondine » Wed Aug 15, 2012 2:11 pm

That probably explains why you missed this witnessed impact near Jacksonville in 1564:

http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&hl=en ... aHt_G6gJII

Some of us do work that peoples' lives depend on - like this physics professor.
Or when impaired at least we can try to do work that peoples' lives depend on.
It all depends on funding, which is essentially zero,
so then it depends on whatever resources we can scrounge.

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Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by Minimalist » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:09 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:min -

We now have OT copies from Qumran as well.

You know, just one good clay archive or a few stone inscriptions from somewhere in the area could clear up so many questions.
But the DSS post date the Septuagint by at least a century, E.P. Just as an aside on this point, the next time I get some fundie xtian losing his mind over at Atheistforums.org when I challenge him to produce evidence of these Early Bronze Age "Hebrew" texts he is rambling on about, I'll post the link. You may find it entertaining.

And you're right when you speculate about future finds upending the applecart but absent those finds we are left with what Archaeologist, Bill Dever, said about his "revered teacher" G. Ernest Wright who once wrote: "In Biblical faith everything depends upon whether the central events occurred"; and the events he meant were the Exodus and Conquest. But what if they didn't occur? Where would that leave us?

Right now the argument has moved down to the so-called "United Kingdom" of the 10th century.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

E.P. Grondine

Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by E.P. Grondine » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:48 am

All in all, I'd rather be on Crete right now.

The problem for me, min, is that I really don't want to learn about bronze age semetic languages (and I now lack the capabilities) , but I am very interested in the "Minoans".
Thus Thera and LM 1B are of great interest to me.

My own work on the "Joshua" impact depends solely on contemporary documents, with Biblical and Greek mythical accounts (particularly those from Ionia) providing only secondary material.

I don't know yet what the "Minoans" believed.

As far as facts and faith goes, a friend pointed out to me to consider "the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf". Was the boy named Johan or Hans? Does it matter? Is the story true?

In any case, I don't want to see future excavations in the area carried out in N-B-C suits.

Life is a blessing, and every day above the dirt a miracle.

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Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by Minimalist » Thu Aug 16, 2012 2:19 pm

All in all, I'd rather be on Crete right now.
It's 113 out here so yeah, Crete sounds good.

As far as facts and faith goes, a friend pointed out to me to consider "the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf". Was the boy named Johan or Hans? Does it matter? Is the story true?
Reminds me of the comment of H. L. Mencken. "There is no possibility whatsoever of reconciling science and theology, at least in Christendom. Either Jesus rose from the dead or he didn't. If he did, then Christianity becomes plausible; if he did not, then it is sheer nonsense."
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

E.P. Grondine

Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by E.P. Grondine » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:49 am

Lighten up, min -

An acquaintence of mine, the late SF author and crank Jerry E. Smith, was working on a book,
"Alien Resurrection", in which he claimed Jesus was an alien-human hybrid, and Jerry had a lot of other UFO/alien "hypothesis" in it as well. Its too bad he did not live to complete the book, as with the "Ancient Aliens" craze going on, he would have made a tidy bundle.

On a more serious note, I think you will have to grant that Jesus is alive and well, living in those who follow his teachings. How some people interpret them and their misuse of them is another question.

Crete is always good. It looks to me like both you and myself are having our own Greek currency crisis.

Oh well. As former President Jimmy Carter once pointed out, life is not fair.

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Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by Minimalist » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:09 am

Jesus is alive and well, living in those who follow his teachings.
There don't seem to be many of those.


Image
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by kbs2244 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:41 pm

“An acquaintance of mine, the late SF author and crank Jerry E. Smith, was working on a book,
"Alien Resurrection", in which he claimed Jesus was an alien-human hybrid,”

As a Christian I would have to agree with that idea.
Spirits fit the description of an alien.
They are non-human, non-terrestrials.

And the Bible in many places refers to Jesus as “spirit begotten.”

It is, in fact, a basic need of Christian doctrine. If he was a “pure” human, with a human father, he wouldn’t have been a perfect human that could pay the ransom price needed to make up for Adams sin.

Our DNA experts would have a ball if anything to check was ever found.
Too bad I will not get a chance to read the book.

uniface

Re: Who wrote the Bible?

Post by uniface » Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:24 am

That's a topic where everybody involved begins with his own set of assumptions, then proceeds to "validate" them.

It can occasionally be entertaining, and the good stuff in it can even provide food for thought.

But it's circular.

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