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Archaeologica.org • View topic - Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

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Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:27 am

Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby shawomet » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:06 am

Really exciting stuff, E.P. Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:55 am

Google Karahan Tepe + Bahattin Çelik and avoid the nonsense about Cygnus and Deneb .
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:23 am

Hi Tiompan -

Andrew Collins was the first person to figure out the astronomical alignments at Gobleki Tepe, and did so with the late Klaus Scmidt, the sites discoverer and excavator.

Collins has been trying for some time to work through those alignments using later ethnographic materials, and precessional astronomy tools.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxW9uU0r8jQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjtWB6X0tfc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z-WQSsO42s


Collins has been trying to find a reason for Gobleki Tepe's alignment to celestial north.
The reason for that is straight forward:
that is where Comet Giacobini Zimmer approached the Earth from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75j5CP0vtsI

The Comet that ended the last glacial cycle.
IMKO, Collins does not have his dates straight yet.

Collins believes that the people who led the construction were the result of intermingling
between Sapiens, Denisovian and Neanderthal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75j5CP0vtsI

I am pretty certain that they were in fact X mt DNA who evolved along the Black Sea.

The informed reader will also note Collin's confusion of separate impact events,
and his pandering to various nu-age frauds.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:00 am

E.P. ,
The informed reader would have been aware of the nonsense Collins has been peddling for years . Look at the texts .
Where do we start with this rubbish ? Ignoring the obvious nonsense about the “Cygnus mystery “ itself i.e. - Cygnus is at the root of all the world's religions
- The origins of astronomy, literature, ancient cosmologies, even transoceanic sea voyages all occurred some 17,000 years ago .
- Cosmic rays from a binary star known as Cygnus X-3 helped accelerate human evolution during the last Ice Age
- Traces the very DNA of life from shamanic art in Paleolithic caves to the foundations of the Great Pyramid, from psychedelic journeys in the Peruvian Amazon to Francis Crick's discovery of the double helix
- Reveals that our ancestors knew what science is now telling us - that life on Earth originated among the stars, a fact known and accepted by our ancestors .

He is not an archaeoastronomer ., he simply has an axe to grind about Cygnus . As with any any site that has multiple components e.g .Stonehenge ,you can use them to find "alignmnets " to any point of the compass or related to any day of the year . The re are plenty of othere examples of "archaeoastronomy " coming up with "alignments" that suggest something entirely differnet and equally as unlikley .I suggest you read what real archaeoastronomers have to say about the site.

Your'e "pretty sure about X mt DNA " from the site .I doubt that is based on anything other than a very superficial knowledge of archaeogenetics and is more likely wishful thinking in association with an agenda .

We can find equally nonsensical "archaeoastronomy " in relation to KT .

First , there are three apparent alignments / “avenues” that have their orientation on to the knoll . Accepting the accuracy of the measurement and their presence , their azimuths are 15º, 115º and 140º ,none of which are oriented towards Deneb or Cygnus and are apparently to , or less likely ,away from the knoll . They at least have some association with the basic tenets of archaeoastronomy in that there is ,hopefully , a clear setting of stones indicating a specific orientation , although even this is probemlatic i.e. “their twin sets of pillars forming an apparent zigzagging pattern” .
The real nitty gritty is the putative alignment towards Deneb . What we have as seen from the knoll i.e. the backsight is a flat horizon to the north towards Keçili North Tepe .This is the foresight , except it is nothing like a foresight ,it’s a featureless flat summit a kilometre away but only 20 m higher than the knoll .The effect is seen in fig 12 . That is not an example of a foresight , it’s a featureless horizon. An example of a foresight could be a standing stone ,like the Heel Stone , or even a prominent notch in a hillside ,something that provides a element of accuracy when lined up from the backsight , not a flat hillside occupying over 20 degrees of the horizon .It’s potentially worse than that , the knoll is merely the high point ,and not where the pillars are and it looks likely that Keçili North Tepe is unsighted from the majority of the pillars/avenues .
Then when we look at what actually happens with the Deneb in the period we discover that half the year Deneb would not be seen to set over the hill at all as it would take place in daylight . The altitude of 2 degrees for the extinction height means that when in view it is still over half an hour before setting on the actual horizon and has also moved over four degrees towards the centre of the “hill” (actually a flat horizon ).Looking to play games with stars on the northern horizon in the period ?, far more interesting would Mizar ,in Ursa major , which actually descends towards towards the horizon as seen from the knoll and skims the top of the hill before ascending again at due north ,where there happens to be a relatively distinctive hill (752 m )for the area ,if anything is a foresight it is .Arcturus a much brighter star than Deneb behaves in much the same way as Mizar ,following the silhouette of the hill then ascending at the more likely and only potential foresight . These are not intended suggested as being meaningful, simply examples that crop up if you look hard enough or have an agenda to sell .Ever hear of a major prehistoric monument being accepted as being aligned on Deneb ? North yes , but that’s a cardinal point .Like the rest of the “mystery “ it’s a joke .The nonsense goes back a long way . I can remember “The Green Stone” and the psychic questing and magazine articles that would make the alt/ wacky US crowd seem sober .
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:08 am

Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Fri Jul 15, 2016 6:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:35 am

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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:12 am

Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:02 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:53 am

[qEP ,
The quotes are getting difficult to distinguish from each other .
The effort involved in working out where the sun sets or rises on the horizon or the moon or any other celstial object for that matter , and marking where that occurs on the horizon as seen from a particular spot is not difficult and does not require a "class of astromomers ". Children could quite easily do it ,building monuments is something else . Those involved in imapct "studies" are obviously no better qualified than anyone else in proviiding explanations , apart from their ill informed agenda driven fantasies .
Collins belongs to the fringe writers on GT and much else besides , you are wasting your time reading him .
Archaeogenetics is a very fast moving fioeld and I doubt that you keep up with it .
You have avoided all the problems about the Cygnus /Deneb nonsense and there is plenty more .do you want an inventory ?
Schmidt clearly did not work with Schmidt , as you had claimed .
How did you manage to confuse the KT data with GT , they are quite different sites in relation to the problems in the "astronomy" . The start of the thread was about KT and Collins , his argumnet about the alignmnet is simply incredibly falwed ,as was the original GT suggestion .
As far as GT goes there are host of problems in connection with what Collins and Hale suggests . You have been given hard data on KT , which you ignored and a critique of the basic problems with GT ? do you want more data on GT , the type of data that the dense agenda driven impact students avoid or fail to understand , in favour of fantasy writers like Collins .
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:25 am

Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:30 am

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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:03 pm

Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:49 pm

You have avoided all the problems and again provided no data ,which says it all .
Yo u haven't pointed out any significant features that are not known about , why do keep wittering on about that . ?
Cometary experts are as likely to be as useful as youraelf or Collins when it comes to the putative "alignments ".
For start of the inventory look back over the detail about KT (Tha's the one you confused with the GT .) ,then maybe you might actually be able to respond with something concrete .
Here's a start on GT .No reasonable response expected .
The first problem is that there is an assumption that there is an alignment ,that is by no means certain .Assuming that there was some possibility of an intentional astronomical alignment then there is a huge choice of possibilities . Standing between the pillars is hardly providing a degree of accuracy , where does the observer stand ? behind them , between them ? ,which way does she look , north or south ? in archaeoastronomical terms there is no indication , why not across the tops of the pillars , or along the actual orientation of an individual pillar ? All will provide “alignments but how can we know that there was any intention .
The alignments that are accepted in archaeoastronomy are obvious with clear indications , in one of the rare cases where the alignment is between the pillars e.g. Stonehenge there are multiple pillars that are aligned creating a narrow tunnel/sighting line effect ,(unlike the single widely spaced pairs at GT ) the observing point is obvious (the centre of the monument) and there is a linear monument connected to the monument on the same alignment (the Avenue ) .Further ,the alignment is to an astronomical event that is found in various /cosmologies throughout the world i.e a solstice . Despite what Collins claims , alignments in prehistoric monuments certainly facing north i.e not part of orientation that could also be described as southerly and facing a part of the sky where the sun or moon doesn’t rise or set ,are eschewed in the vast majority of alignments and monuments ,and those that do face north are rarely facing Deneb ,if there is an astro alignment due to the date of build and precession , it would be Thuban . Plenty more ,but judging by your previous replies ,which actually avoid the salient points ,you are unlikely to understand .


I missed this "As far as Stonehenge goes, may I suggest to you that you examine the dates of the major construciton phases? " I m well aware of the dating of the major phases . I wonder if you are are . The miserable attempt at dating the monument using archaeoastronomy by Lockyer , was the point ,another one that was avoided .
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby kbs2244 » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:19 pm

Have we reached the "Tempest in a Tea Pot" stage yet?
The site is very interesting.
Lets let the chips fall where they may.

Personally I expect a Bosnia Pyramid and AZ Los Lumas type "if we ignore it, it will go away" mainstream response.
It is a classic “Artifact out of place” discovery, except it is a whole site out of place.
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Re: Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:07 am

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