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Archaeologica.org • View topic - Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:15 pm

well, simon, I like to try to establish locations and chronology, and work from there.

I still think deconstructing Adomnan's Life of Columba into its sources is a good way of attacking his problem.
There is also a Prophatio Merlini which appears top be a"translation" of an Anglo-Saxon writing into Welsh to work through.
I treid to find Dark via google, but could not.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:25 pm

And just to bring this back to wood henges and stone henges

Sacred pool ringed by totem poles in Scotland's ritual glen {TOTEM POLES?!!!!]

An early Bronze Age timber circle containing an inner ring of totem poles set around a deep, sacred pool is thought to have once stood at the head of the Kilmartin Valley in Argyll, site of one of Scotland's richest concentrations of prehistoric ritual monuments.

Post-excavation analysis of the pits and postholes found when the site was excavated in the 1990s (BA November 1997) has concluded that the timber circle was far more unusual than was initially thought. The circle stood on a terrace overlooking the valley; and at its heart was a large hollow nearly 7 metres wide and 2 metres deep. Now full of peat, the hollow must have contained standing water over a long period of time.

Around this pool was an inner ring of post-holes, thought to have once held totems. At the base of one was a cremation burial under a stone. From the outer ring of 30 oak posts, some 47 metres in diameter, a timber-lined processional avenue appears to have snaked down to the valley floor.

Clare Ellis, in charge of post-excavation at the Edinburgh firm AOC Archaeology, said the pool was likely to have been a 'votive pool' - a phenomenon thought to be unparalleled at any other known stone or timber circle in Britain. No metalwork was found in the pool, but offerings of 'organic materials' such as sacrificial animals could have been made, from which no evidence has survived. Traces of wood in the pool may have belonged to a fence.

In and around the timber circle were six contemporary cyst burials. In one, a woman in her 20s or 30s was buried with a decorated food vessel. The decoration on the pot had been created by pressing a fingernail repeatedly into the wet clay.

Traces of much earlier monuments were also found underlying the circle. One end of an early Neolithic cursus - a ritual procession monument - was uncovered at the edge of the terrace, a place with a magnificent view across the Kilmartin Valley. The massive structure, some 45 metres wide, was defined not by banks and ditches but by hundreds of close-set oak posts. By the time the circle was built some 1,500 years later, these posts had no doubt disappeared; but the memory of the sacred importance of the site had probably survived. Also found were a number of late Mesolithic cooking pits containing charcoal dated to about 4,500 BC, perhaps marking the site of an overnight camp.

Surviving monuments in the Kilmartin Valley include a 'linear cemetery' of Bronze Age cairns, several standing stones, a stone circle and numerous elaborate rock art panels.
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Simon21 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:08 am

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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:09 am

EP .Note the description of the timber circle in Kilmartin ,i.e. not a wood henge .
It has long been suggested that the timbers in timber circles may have had carved totems but there is no evidence for them at any site , so just conjecture .
There is a henge ,at Ballymeanoch , no associated stone or timber but it does have two cists .
Interesting and very popular area Kilmartin .
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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Simon21 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:12 am

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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:12 am

You still don't want to share the tourist dollars with Scotland, tiompan.
Nor admit that Native Americans built henges.
And by the way, the Kilmartin's henge's wood uprights were certainly not "Totem Poles".
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:22 am

Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:25 am

[
Show me what you describe as a prehistoric American henge , and if it fits the definition I'll agree, but bear in mind timber or stone components or putative alignments do not a henge make .

The timber circle at Kilmartin was not a henge , that was clarified earlier .
We couldn't possibly know whether the timber components of the circle had carvings of totems , or not , as the wood is long gone .
As mentioned earlier it is mere conjecture .
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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:11 am

tiompan, I've already given you multiple examples, which you appear to be unable or unwilling to perceive.
If you want to talk about circuli or circuluses, then use the correct term, and not "henge".
And the henge at Kilmartin is not a wood "circle" any more than its uprights were "totem poles".

Do you really want to continure to try to confuse people with your drivel about "aether"?
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:28 am

You haven't given me multiple examples of henges .
You mention sites that you call henges based on your definition .
You never provide any detail from from any archaeological reports from these sites either .

Circuli and circuluses are not recognised monument types .
There are a huge number of prehistoric monument types that are circular or roughly circular none are referred to as a circulus .

When I use the term Henge it refers to the monument recognised by people who know about the subject the world over .
The only person that is confused and talking drivel is yourself .
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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Simon21 » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:51 pm

Conjecture plays an important role in archaeology, particularly where there is a lack of written evidence. Nobody interested in the subject would expect anything else. The whole context of Sutton hoo is conjecture - much of the purpose of Hadrian's Wall is conjecture.
I have not visited this site, and will not pretend to have done so but there is a henge in the area.
One should not get too heated about terms. I have seen the monuments of central America called pyramids and ziggurats, I have seen rare Koorie artifacts called "crown jewels", Moctezuma was not a european "emperor". Provided one has a brain it is not really a problem. In each case we may be sure such terms were not what the builders and owners would have used.
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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:41 am

[
Nothing wrong with conjecture , who said there was ? In this case ,prehistoric totem poles , you can only shrug your shoulders and say maybe for either side of the argument .
"It has long been suggested that the timbers in timber circles may have had carved totems but there is no evidence for them at any site" .

We obviously can't know what terms were used by prehistoric peoples but there tends to be general agreement among people interested in the subject(s) today , in the use of a commonly accepted contemporary terminology .
If you get the terminology wrong it causes confusion . If you make up your own definitions it gets worse , having a private language, like ignoring evidence is fine for the individual , but not when others are involved .
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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Simon21 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:28 am

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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Simon21 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:39 am

As regards totem poles, it is true until one is found we are never going to be able to say whether they were carved or not, or painted. I have to say I am not entirely clear what a "totem" pole is supposed to be, it seems to be a word whitey often uses when encountering the carved columns of non whites, like taboo.
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Re: Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

Postby Tiompan » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:11 am

There was no discussion .
Years ago I politely pointed out the error of EP'S definition of henge .
He continued to use definitions that are obviously wrong became abusive and refused to accept the evidence highlighting the error .
I should have just left him to his error , foolishly I didn't . But he is wrong .
Some might argue for or against Jack Fuller's tomb being a pyramid .
Whatever it is , we know that it is not a Ziggerut .
Whilst the typology of henges is complicated we do know that EP's definitions are not that of henges .
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