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Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:24 pm
by circumspice
Swanz wrote:Peanuts at Gobekli Tepe? This indicates contact with America -- 1st, 2nd, 3rd hand or greater. This does not surprise me, since a very early variety of peanut was found in a Shang Era Chinese tomb roughly 50 years ago. The reference article about Gobekli Tepe cited in this thread is no longer available, so I can't read it for myself.




I read a couple of articles about that site & they never actually said peanuts, they said wild peanuts. I looked up wild peanuts & found that it is a common name for groundnuts. Groundnuts had been exploited by hunter gatherers, then later domesticated by early farmers in West Africa. So it isn't impossible for groundnuts to have reached Anatolia at an early date.

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:06 am
by Simon21
Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe
Unread postby E.P. Grondine » Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:38 pm

Those almonds and pistachios were important food sources that helped lead to a sedentary life style.
I don't think a sedentary lifestyle requires you to eat almonds and pistachios. It does require deliberate cultivation.
You know, Colin Renfreww gained a certain amount of recognition for his studies on the development of wine.
If GT shows beer production, then someone is going to acquire some recognition as well.
Good old Colin! The Masai make beer, the Mongolians drank fermented mare's milk. Not exactly sedentary were they.

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:25 am
by E.P. Grondine
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... 5/20160429

Which in turn leads to the question of the date of the discovery of alcohol in all those regions.

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:31 am
by E.P. Grondine
circumspice wrote:
Swanz wrote:Peanuts at Gobekli Tepe? This indicates contact with America -- 1st, 2nd, 3rd hand or greater. This does not surprise me, since a very early variety of peanut was found in a Shang Era Chinese tomb roughly 50 years ago. The reference article about Gobekli Tepe cited in this thread is no longer available, so I can't read it for myself.


I read a couple of articles about that site & they never actually said peanuts, they said wild peanuts. I looked up wild peanuts & found that it is a common name for groundnuts. Groundnuts had been exploited by hunter gatherers, then later domesticated by early farmers in West Africa. So it isn't impossible for groundnuts to have reached Anatolia at an early date.
thank you for that clarification, spice.
The question is the food sources that enabled the semi-sedentary lifestyle found at Gobekli Tepe.

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:36 am
by E.P. Grondine
Simon21 wrote: Good old Colin!
I once heard Renfrew give a talk on diffussion.
About a hour later, an archaeologist was showing a mass grave from a slaughter.
None the less, "The Radiocarbon Revolution" in European archaeology belongs to Renfrew.

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:16 am
by Tiompan
E.P. Grondine wrote: The question is the food sources that enabled the semi-sedentary lifestyle found at Gobekli Tepe.
The question was in relation to this thread ,that only you can answer was "B why mention an arboreal phase when there was no evidence for one ?"

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:05 am
by E.P. Grondine
Tiompan wrote:
E.P. Grondine wrote: The question is the food sources that enabled the semi-sedentary lifestyle found at Gobekli Tepe.
The question was in relation to this thread ,that only you can answer was "But why mention an arboreal phase when there was no evidence for one ?"
tiompan, you're lack of experience working with semi-sedentary peoples' sites is showing.
You're focusing on Gobekli Tepe, while ignoring its predecessors.
Once again, in my opinion, the large stones likely had predecessors: large trees.
I am interested in the dating of the use of quarry at Gobekli Tepe,
and preceding dugout canoes in the region.
As excavation proceeds to the lower levels, and to the quarry, we'll see what they find.

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:31 am
by Tiompan
E.P. Grondine wrote: You're focusing on Gobekli Tepe, while ignoring its predecessors.
Once again, in my opinion, the large stones likely had predecessors: large trees.
E.P.
I am focusing on the title of the thread ."Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe "
There is no evidence for an "arboreal phase " near Gobekli Tepe .
Once again, your opinion is fantasy .

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:07 pm
by Minimalist
Perhaps someone figured out that the peanut was indigenous to South America, realized the story was bullshit, and pulled it?

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:58 am
by E.P. Grondine
New site summary:

http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/fa ... gious-site

I think that a climate controlled inflatable structure may be what they need.

Once again, nuts seem to have played a major role in their diet.

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:07 am
by Simon21
An interesting site, pity about the wild speculation. If no one can be definitive about whether there was a settlement of some kind it indicates an enormous amount of work remains to be done.

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:56 pm
by Minimalist
This was sent to me by Youtube as a "Recommendation." I really must speak to them about that!

Anyway.

https://youtu.be/dQ8_qHZRu6o


You'll get the gist of this in the first few moments but it will make the subsequent debunking more plain.

https://tepetelegrams.wordpress.com/201 ... nt-page-1/
So, to answer the question posed in this headline: No. No, Göbekli Tepe was not built by Aboriginal Australians. The superficial similarities in iconography and art are exceptional coincidences in the best and misinterpretations in the most unfavourable case. With the same line of argument one could think, the early Neolithic hunter-gatherers of Göbekli Tepe were already inventing the letter “T” due to the characteristic shape of these omnipresent pillars …

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:08 am
by Tiompan
Reminiscent of EP's fantasy and the Jerf el Ahmar plaques , even down to the explanation .
See http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewt ... unn#p73945
or
Tiompan wrote:
One of the classics of Australian symbolism is Nancy D .Munn’s “Walibiri Iconography: Graphic Representation and cultural symbolism in a cenrtral Australian society “ The arcs ,which are found in nearly all areas where rock art is to be found usually represent actors , often human but they can be animals e.g. oppossums , the dots can represent head as she suggests or increase i.e. plularity . Exactly the same symbol complete with ethnographic explanation and with no possibility of the the interpretation being the Draconids . Arcs and dots are some of the basic forms used world wide in rock art and symbols ,they can represent many things depending on the culture that is doing the representing .
the point is that you can make up any old BS and suggest what you like but some things are going to be much less likely than others. . “
“We have been over the interpretation of these markings before ,as is often the case the “interpretation”, like a rorschach test ,
tells us more about the personal obsessions of the interpreter than the actual markings ."

It is worth noting that Australia is one of few areas where we have any direct link to information regarding mythologies related to engravings /paintings .
It is also the place where rock art researchers are most reluctant to provide “interpretations “ and when they do , they place them in quotes .

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:21 am
by Simon21
Attempting to give a certain definition to symbols thousands of years after the culture that produced them is self-obviously a fool's errand.

As is over-jargonising in an attempt to boost one's credibility. "Arboreal phase" what does that mean? A mad desire to grow shrubberies, pace Monty Python and the knights of Ni?

Re: Arboreal phase near Gobekli Tepe

Posted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:51 am
by E.P. Grondine
Hi simon -

You have to remember that in North America, cultures based on nut use emerged long before those based on domesticated crops.
As a matter of fact, the nut use probably allowed a sedentary lifestyle wherein crops were domesticated.

Attempting to tell you or tiompan that two comet fragments hit at the start of the Holocene is probably a fool's errand.
But those who actually work in the field of impact studies have no problem with it.