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Keep Digging, Boys....

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:54 pm
by Minimalist
You never know what you will find! ... ion-clock/

‘Oldest remains’ outside Africa reset human migration clock

Two fossilised but badly damaged skulls unearthed in a Greek cave in the 1970s were identified as Neanderthal at the time.

In findings presented in the journal Nature, an international team of researchers used state-of-the art computer modelling and uranium dating to re-examine the two skulls.

One of them, named Apidima 2 after the cave in which the pair were found, proved to be 170,000 years old and did indeed belong to a Neanderthal.

But, to the shock of scientists, the skull named Apidima 1 pre-dated Apidima 2 by as much as 40,000 years, and was determined to be that of a Homo sapiens.

Re: Keep Digging, Boys....

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:31 pm
by kbs2244
40,000 years apart and in the same cave?

Re: Keep Digging, Boys....

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:53 pm
by circumspice
The 'skull' Apidima 1 is a skull fragment from the top rear portion of the original skull... It's a huge stretch to declare anything about it at all, including the dating... The dates range from 300 thousand years down to 40 thousand years. Everything about it is problematic.
They need to repeat the dating in the hope that they can determine the age of the fossil with a date range of less than 260 thousand years. That kind of date range is ridiculous in respect to making any claims.

And now for the rest of the story...

But Warren Sharp, a uranium dating expert at the University of California, Berkeley, points out that the Apidima 1 samples actually returned dates ranging from more than 300,000 years old to less than 40,000 years old. "It's not a well-behaved sample," he says. "You have this huge spread of apparent ages, and you don't know if any of them are any good." ... -years-ago

Re: Keep Digging, Boys....

PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:14 pm
by circumspice
kbs2244 wrote:40,000 years apart and in the same cave?

Is that somehow improbable? A good shelter, in a favorable area, would undoubtably show signs of occupation by any creature in need of shelter for as long as that shelter is accessible. Duh.

Re: Keep Digging, Boys....

PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:09 pm
by kbs2244
"It's not a well-behaved sample,"
Classic under statement

Those cave range from 4 to 26 M above sea level.
Earthquakes are not uncommon in the area.

In 40,000 years they have been flooded and otherwise disturbed how many times?

I have to agree with this guy:

Israel Hershkovitz, a paleoanthropologist at Tel Aviv University in Israel who found the fossils in Misliya Cave

But Hershkovitz isn't convinced Apidima 1 represents those ancient pioneers. Without more complete fossils and confirmation of their dates by other techniques, he says, "The evidence is very weak."

I smell headline hunting.