The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

Moderators: Minimalist, MichelleH

Posts: 598
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Re:Pre GrecRoman Egypt

Post by Simon21 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:23 pm

circumspice wrote:
kbs2244 wrote:Wasn’t there an Egypt to sub Sahara, salt for gold, camel train culture that pre-dated the Greco Roman era?
Very little genetic ties but still slavery contact at least.

Camels were probably introduced into ancient Egypt during the Assyrian & Persian invasions, circa 7th to 6th century BCE. (Arabian mercenaries?)
What evidence is there of this? Egypt is very close to areas where Camels are raised, they could have used theim earlier.

Posts: 598
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Huh?

Post by Simon21 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:25 pm

kbs2244 wrote:The Trans-Saharan Gold Trade (7th–14th Century)

Gold Trade and the Kingdom of Ancient Ghana

Around the fifth century, thanks to the availability of the camel, Berber-speaking people began crossing the Sahara Desert. From the eighth century onward, annual trade caravans followed routes later described by Arabic authors with minute attention to detail

So, you are correct.
It was a later trade route
Not sure what this has to do with Egypt.

Posts: 598
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:40 am

Re: Huh?

Post by Simon21 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:31 pm

circumspice wrote:
Cognito wrote:
"A match of only five alleles does not prove any conclusive close family relationship. The data published by Hawass et al. gives only eight autosomal STR markers (Hawass et al., 2010)."
From ISOGG Wiki:

The previous genetic analysis really appears to be unsophisticated. If truth was being sought (which may not be the case), whoever has the bio samples could re-test using today's techniques which are more accurate than ten years ago and result in better conclusions regarding genetic affinity with others. The cost? Absolutely minimal. :roll:

Maybe the truth isn't being sought. I noted that the article that min cited states that prior to the Greco Roman era, Egyptians had few genetic ties to Sub Saharan populations. I'm sure that was met with howls of protests about white conspiracy & racism by the very vocal Afro centrists who claim that the ancient Egyptians were black sub Saharan Africans. As I said before, I'd like to see what kind of results Svante Paabo would get.
This would be because this is the way that black africans and those who associate with them behave? That would be something in their genes? Like black Americans have a gene that makes them good banjo players?

Black africans were certainly in Ancient Egypt, why that should upset someone is a mystery.

User avatar
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: Huh?

Post by circumspice » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:48 am

Simon21 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:18 pm
circumspice wrote:
And how would DNA prove the religious affiliation of the body being tested? And how does the Egyptian Government prevent DNA testing outside Egypt?

The Egyptian government prevents outsider genetic testing on the human remains that are within their control, i.e. all human remains that are in Egypt. They can only protest genetic testing on ancient Egyptian human remains that are located in other countries. Genetic testing can't prove religious affiliations, it can only prove ethnicity & familial relationships. Jews are a recognized ethnic group... Egyptians, for fairly obvious reasons, don't want to be told that they are in any way related to Jews.
Modern decsions on ethnicity are not relevant here you cannot tell from ancient remains whether someone is jewish from DNA (re Masada). And it is insulting to suggest that the Egpytians are too stupid to know this. And given the intrusive and insensitive desecation of ancient remains the Egyptians are only reflecting the views of many national groups on the treatment of thier ancestors remains - including orthodox jews.

The whole thing sounds like yet another anti arab cod.
Egyptians are not Arabs. They speak Arabic as a consequence of the Arab conquest. The Coptic Christian Egyptians speak a language that is closely related to & evolved from the ancient Egyptian language. That factored heavily in the final deciphering of the ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics... Modern Egyptians are Egyptian, a north African people. Arabs will tell you that Peninsular Arabs are the only true Arabs. That means persons who originated on the Arabian Peninsula.

Of course there has been a great deal of mingling of cultures & ethnicities since the Persian conquest of Egypt. Prior to that the Egyptian people didn't mingle much with what they considered to be inferior foreigners. They had a strict definition of "us & them". It is very evident in the ancient Egyptian art & literature.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

Post Reply