Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

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Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Minimalist » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:41 am

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ ... story.html
Massive Roman shipwreck found in Mediterranean Sea could be of ‘significant’ importance to researchers

The remains of the massive vessel, which is believed to have sunk some 2,000 years ago, included 6,000 terracotta pots that were being carried on board, CNN reported.

At 110 feet, the ship is the largest ever found in the eastern Mediterranean, and one of the four biggest to be found in the entirety of the sea. The pots found with it are known as amphorae.
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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by circumspice » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:07 am

Although that's a great find I would rather see a similar find in the Black Sea. The potential for preservation of organic materials is far greater because of the anoxic properties of the waters of the Black Sea.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by kbs2244 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:54 pm

Interesting
110 feet is a good sized ship
Very much a deep water sailing vessel.
Too big to maneuver quickly in coastal shallows as a "always in sight of land" ship.
Most likely ran aground in such a site.

I too would like to see a Black Sea find like this
But I doubt the need for a ship this size on it's trade routes.

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Minimalist » Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:05 pm

Agreed, kb. Your comment triggered a memory and I found this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis_(ship)
The Roman ship Isis was a very large ship that operated on the Mediterranean during the Roman Empire around 150 AD, carrying grain from Egypt to Italy. The Isis was apparently 55 meters (180 feet) long and had a beam of 13.7 meters (45 feet). Its cargo hold was 13.4 meters (44 feet) deep.[3] It displaced 1200 short tons or 1,071 long tonnes.

In his book Πλοἶον ἢ Εὐχαί ("The Ship, or The Wishes") the sophist Lucian described the Isis when he saw it in Athens' seaport Piraeus:
It goes on to quote the passage of Lucian.

A 1,200 ton wooden ship is nothing to sneeze at. The one just found was 70% of that size. Quite impressive.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by circumspice » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:08 am

Lucian was quite eloquent. And it would seem that he was an ardent admirer sailing vessels.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Simon21 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:20 am

This is an impressive find. Having recently visited Ephesus and been given a lecture on the immense cost of archaeological excavations, one wonders how long this will take to excavate and research.

The Nemi ships however show how advanced ancient boat building could be. Had the allies not bombed them one can only wonder what we might have learned with modern methods

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by kbs2244 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:03 pm

Modern method constructed pleasure boats have done well.
The current top of the line ones rival super carriers in size.
But built in Baltic ports I belive.

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Minimalist » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:51 am

I did a little comparative research.

In 1701 the Royal Navy launched HMS Royal Sovereign, a 100-gun first rate ship of the line. It's keel was 141 feet. Even HMS Victory, built in 1756, had a keel of only 151 feet.

Kind of puts this bullshit about Noah's "ark" in perspective!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by circumspice » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:47 am

The first quote is from Discovery Magazine. The second quote is from Wikipedia.



It’s not known whether the fires started as a result of US artillery or German arson. Nazi troops frequently set fire to positions they abandoned, blowing up bridges on the retreat and doing anything they could to slow the advance of the Allies. Either way, the Nemi ships burned.


The ships were destroyed by fire in World War II on the night of 31 May 1944.[9] Several shells of the United States Army hit the museum around 8 pm, causing little damage but forcing the German artillery to leave the area. Around two hours later, smoke was seen coming from the museum. There are conflicting views on which side was responsible for the destruction:

At that time, Allied forces were pursuing the retreating German army northward through the Alban Hills toward Rome. On May 28, a German artillery post was established within 400 feet (120 m) of the museum … An official report filed in Rome later that year described the tragedy as a willful act on the part of the German soldiers. A German editorial blamed the destruction on American artillery fire. The true story of what happened that night will probably never be known.[9]
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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Simon21 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:15 am

Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece
Post by Minimalist » Tue Dec 24, 2019 8:51 am

I did a little comparative research.

In 1701 the Royal Navy launched HMS Royal Sovereign, a 100-gun first rate ship of the line. It's keel was 141 feet. Even HMS Victory, built in 1756, had a keel of only 151 feet.

Kind of puts this bullshit about Noah's "ark" in perspective
!

And man for man the crew on the Mary Rose apparently had more room than those on the Victory. But crew comfort was hardly the issue.

Interesting the relatively recent admission that the MR could have been sunk by the French instead of by itself.

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Minimalist » Thu Jan 30, 2020 1:35 pm

I hadn't heard that Simon. Got a link?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Simon21 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:40 pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsto ... nball.html

The conventional story is a little strange, there is no other account of a major RN ship sinking due to a gust of wind.

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Minimalist » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:42 pm

They have analysed a remarkably detailed engraving of the battle, created shortly after the event, and used modern mapping techniques to create a virtual 3D account of the battle.
Um.... how do they know what is real and what is artistic license?

The idea that the small guns carried by galleys could cause that kind of damage is a bit far-fetched. This note about her construction hints at the problem:
The Mary Rose was equipped with 78 guns originally and upgraded to 91 in 1536 and her carvel hull allowed watertight gun-ports to be constructed. Her ability to fire broadside made her both the pride of the English Navy and Henry VIII’s favourite ship.


https://www.theanneboleynfiles.com/reso ... mary-rose/
The king's hubris in piling too many guns into the hull has to have been a factor.

This is not a case where a shell hit a magazine and it blew up. There were probably a number of factors involved.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Large Shipwreck Found Off Greece

Post by Simon21 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:40 am

It is obvious we are unlikely to get the answer and maybe it was a combination of factors.

But it is interesting that visiting the MR exhibition years ago no mention at all was made of the French.

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