Food's Probably Cold By Now!

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Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by Minimalist » Sat Dec 26, 2020 11:01 am

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/26/europe/p ... index.html

Ancient snack stall uncovered in Pompeii, revealing bright frescoes and traces of 2,000-year-old street food
"Our preliminary analyses shows that the figures drawn on the front of the counter, represent, at least in part, the food and drink that were sold there," said Valeria Amoretti, a site anthropologist.
Amoretti said traces of pork, fish, snails and beef had been found in the containers, a discovery she called a "testimony to the great variety of animal products used to prepare dishes."
No garum, huh? I could live without that.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Simon21
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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by Simon21 » Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:03 pm

According to Mary Beard other taverns like this show no signs of fire, meaning the food was either sold cold or they contained ingredients not actual meals, though this discovery seems to mitigate against this. Of course no kitchens have been found at Pompeii and very few (if any) cooking implements.

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circumspice
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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by circumspice » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:10 pm

Bullshit. Kitchens have been found in Pompeii in several villas & even in a "launderette". Check your facts before spewing nonsense Simple Simon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/ro ... y_01.shtml

In the Kitchen

Shown here is the stone cooking range from the House of the Vettii, along with bronze cooking vessels that were found in the kitchen of this house. Cooking took place on top of the range - the bronze pots were placed on iron braziers over a small fire.

In other houses, the pointed bases of amphorae storage jars were used instead of tripods to support vessels. Firewood was stored in the alcove beneath the range. Typical cooking vessels include cauldrons, skillets and pans, and reflect the fact that food generally was boiled rather than baked.

Not all houses in Pompeii have masonry ranges or even separate kitchens - indeed, distinct kitchen areas generally are found only in the larger houses of the town. It is likely that in many houses cooking took place on portable braziers.
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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by circumspice » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:18 pm

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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by circumspice » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:27 pm

More info:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Roman_cuisine

Portable stoves and ovens were used by the Romans, and some had water pots and grills laid onto them. At Pompeii, most houses had separate kitchens, most fairly small, but a few large; the Villa of the Mysteries covers a nine-by-twelve meter area.[36] A number of kitchens at Pompeii had no roofs, resembling courtyards more than ordinary rooms; this allowed smoke to ventilate.[36] Kitchens that did have roofs must have been extremely smokey, since the only ventilation would come from high windows or holes in the ceiling; while the Romans built chimneys for their bakeries and smithies, they were unknown in private dwellings until about the 12th century A.D, well after the collapse of Roman civilization.[37][38]
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

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circumspice
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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by circumspice » Mon Dec 28, 2020 9:37 pm

Many of the cooking & eating utensils found in Pompeii were removed from the site where they were found in 1912. They were either packed up & stored or the better pieces were put on display at a central location away from the find site.

https://historythings.com/pompeiis-kitc ... ns-cooked/

“We’re delighted the pieces have finally been put back on display where they were found and we’re certain they will be appreciated by modern tourists, eager to learn how people lived in antiquity.” – Massimo Osana, Archaeological Superintendent of Pompeii.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by Minimalist » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:17 am

I was as the House of the Vettii in 1995. The kitchen was a big part of the tour. There is a difference between a kitchen in a residence and a street side "fast food" stand though. Still, I recall street side counter with similar fittings for amphorae type storage jars and even took a photo of my wife standing at them. I recall asking her why I couldn't get her to stand in the kitchen more at home!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by Simon21 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:44 pm

Good for Mr dirt-mouth, posting without referring to human shixxx. Therapy must be working!

I stand corrected, but the fact remains that the total amount of kitchen material found at Pompeii is not great and the huge vessels in the counters show little signs of fire. Presumably they weren't heated. A lot of your "material" is speculative eg kitchens without roofs? So everyone went hungry when it rained?

And the laundrette kitchen is an interpretive reconstruction ie not original.

And Mr Moron I did not say the Romans didn't actually eat did I?

There are no surviving double beds from Pompey or Herculaneum - that does not mean couples did not have sex.

Amazing your interested in cooking though well done! I thought the toilet facilities would be your interest.

My source is Mary Beard - Pompeii

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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by circumspice » Tue Dec 29, 2020 9:40 pm

Simon21 wrote:
Sun Dec 27, 2020 4:03 pm
According to Mary Beard other taverns like this show no signs of fire, meaning the food was either sold cold or they contained ingredients not actual meals, though this discovery seems to mitigate against this. Of course no kitchens have been found at Pompeii and very few (if any) cooking implements.
Apparently your revered source is just as full of bullshit as you are Simple Simon. One wonders why you never bother to do a fact check before making such definitive statements. (Something that you tend to do with utter predictability) Just open your mouth & insert your foot Simple Simon. (Saves time & effort on your part)
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by circumspice » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:21 am

More Pompeii kitchens for Simple Simon:

Villa of the Mysteries, which had a courtyard kitchen. It even boasted 2 ovens. A small oven is attached to the hearth & the large oven is across the courtyard.


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Re: Food's Probably Cold By Now!

Post by Simon21 » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:22 pm

Oh dear Mr Moron tries again. This is going to be fun.

Can I humbly suggest that if you haven't actually heard of one of the world's leading Classicists (she has extensively lectured in Yankeeland and her books are widely available), that you pull your stupid head in and concentrate on your favourite subject - human excrement?

But let us take the time to educate you

Point 1 The Villa of the Mysteries has been very extensively restored for tourists and morons like you. So what is actually authentic is open to question. Like your beloved laundrette. Ditto much else in Pompeii (which has been called an archaeological disaster site).

Many of your cobbled together images seem to show possible bread making ovens, not something that would have been used well nigh continually. That may account for why, apparently, Romans were happy to cook in the wind and rain. Hard on the women and slaves but hey.

Point 2 I have conceded that my earlier statement there were no kitchens was wrong (ie not correct, mistaken). But the fact remains that these only occur in some properties. This is unlike houses in er say Trumptown or Moronville USA where kitchens are part of the house, a central part. This raises the issue of how the vast majority of people prepared food. Where was it stored, what fuel was used etc.

Of course in the 19th century this was not unusual. Poor families wishing to cook a sizeable meal would have it cooked at the local pub, venue, then take it home. Maybe this was done in Pompey, but where remains a mystery.

Point 3 No one said (except you perhaps) that the people of Pompey did not eat. Given your love of sewage I am surprised you did not point out that archaeologists have identified numerous food remains from the sewers - including proof that they apparently enjoyed eating fish heads. There is also the famous much reproduced painting of a bakery and a petrified loaf. Plus at least one flour mill.

Incidentally a magnificent amber necklace was pulled out of a sewer. How it got in there remains a puzzle.

Point 4 Leap into the dark but hey lets try for the third time. The counters with the large amphorae are a fairly common feature. The recent analysis is interesting and important but the fact remains (as far as I am aware) there is no evidence of fire/heating. So what was happening? Blowtorches? Microwaves? Raw materials only?

As I say this is plainly not your area. You are obsessed with the end of the eating process, not its beginning.

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