Neanderthal News

The science or study of primitive societies and the nature of man.

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Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Sun May 04, 2008 7:23 am

Sorry, guys.... :lol: couldn't resist.

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Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Bruce
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Post by Bruce » Sun May 04, 2008 9:45 am

http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_summ.jsp?c ... &from=news
P. boisei dental profiles also were compared to the New World mantled howling monkey and Old World silvered leaf monkey, which eat mostly leaves. Researchers also compared them to some of P. boisei's more contemporary counterparts--Australopithecus africanus, which lived between 3.3 million and 2.3 million years ago, and Paranthropus robustus, which lived between 2 million and 1.5 million years ago.

The findings showed that P. boisei teeth had light wear, suggesting that none of the individuals ate extremely hard or tough foods in the days leading up to death. The pattern was more consistent with modern-day fruit-eating animals than with most modern-day primates.

"It looks more like they were eating Jell-O," Ungar said.

This finding, while contradictory to previous speculation on the diet of P. boisei, is in line with a paradox documented in fish. Liem's Paradox states that animals may actively avoid eating the very foods they have developed adaptations for when they can find other food sources.
Are these guy's saying they found the first fisherman?
On the hybrid vein, these were the guy's that turned into Erectus and Neandertal. What are they calling the hybrid of Erectus and Neandertal?

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Manystones
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Neanderthal ancestors

Post by Manystones » Sun May 04, 2008 2:13 pm

Saw the following information summarised in an article "Are Neanderthal Portraits Wrong?" and thought it might be worth throwing in here;
Whether (and if) the last common ancestor of classic cold-weather Neanderthals and Moderns existed around;

465 000 to 600 000 years ago, as Distell proposed on the basis of phylogenetic analysis of Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA (Disotell 1999), or

between 365 000 and 853 000 years ago (Ovchinnikov et al. 2000), or

around 465 000 BP with confidence limites of 317 000 and 741 000 (Krings et al. 1999), or, finally,

in the most recent and exhaustive of studies of nuclear genes, between '1015 and 465 kiloyears (kyr)' with confidence levels of 95% (Foley and Mirzon Lahr 2007), with averages of 516 kyr (Green et al. 2006) and 706 kyr (Noonan et al. 2006) being calculated for this event,
Duncan Caldwell, Are Neanderthal Portraits Wrong? Neanderthal adaptions to cold and their impact on Palaeolithic populations, Rock Art Research, Vol 25, 1, p 103.

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Sun May 04, 2008 6:25 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080504/sc ... wI0mVFeQoB
PARIS (AFP) - A new, simplified family tree of humanity, published on Sunday, has dealt a blow to those who contend that the enigmatic hominids known as Neanderthals intermingled with our forebears.

Neanderthals were a separate species to Homo sapiens, as anatomically modern humans are known, rather than offshoots of the same species, the new organigram published by the journal Nature declares.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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john
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Post by john » Sun May 04, 2008 8:48 pm

Minimalist wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080504/sc ... wI0mVFeQoB
PARIS (AFP) - A new, simplified family tree of humanity, published on Sunday, has dealt a blow to those who contend that the enigmatic hominids known as Neanderthals intermingled with our forebears.

Neanderthals were a separate species to Homo sapiens, as anatomically modern humans are known, rather than offshoots of the same species, the new organigram published by the journal Nature declares.

Minimalist -

The presumptive ability to fornicate, and therefore

Speciate, does not necessarily

Exclude the ability to

Communicate.

Yes?

hoka hey


john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Sun May 04, 2008 10:07 pm

I just posted it, John. I made no comment on it.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Cognito
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H habilis

Post by Cognito » Mon May 05, 2008 6:01 am

From the article:
We are direct linear descendants of H. habilis. H. sapiens started to show up around 200,000 years ago.
So what happened to H. erectus? And if bones of H. sapiens have been dated to 195kya in Ethiopia, then IMO that the species "showed up" far earlier than 200kya. Poor science doesn't "Deal a Blow" to anything.

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Re: Aurignacians

Post by Beagle » Mon May 05, 2008 11:59 am

Cognito wrote:
One group of scientists - known as the multi-regionalists, led by Milford Wolpoff from Michigan University - claim these ancient humans began to evolve in these new homelands and that the Chinese, aborigines from Australia, the Inuit and other races today are the direct descendants of these ancient emigres. An example is provided by the Neanderthals who dominated Europe from about 250,000 years ago until they disappeared around 35,000 years ago. In their place, a race of sophisticated craftsmen and hunters called the Cro-Magnons began to flourish. Multi-regionalists claim Neanderthals vanished for the simple reason they had evolved into Cro-Magnons, who then became the founding stock of Europeans today.
Beags, I asked Prof. Wolpoff the question, "Who were the Aurignacians?" and he returned his reply with three lengthy PDF files captioned as "recent research". His take is that the Aurignacians were either Neanderthals or hybrids -- but certainly not moderns from Africa. Should anyone wish, just PM me with your direct email and I'll forward the files. The three articles are 123 total pages in length so don't sue me for gumming up your computer! To make matters worse, Milford scanned one of the papers upside down. Don't ask me rotate it -- not gonna happen in this lifetime. :D

Given the morphology, the most likely answer is that the Neanderthals were hybridized out of existence. Most genetic traces would be washed out over a few thousand years by an overwhelming immigration into the area post-LGM. However, I suspect my neighbor's daughter is an annoying little throwback to a Neanderthal. :evil:
Thanks a lot for the good info Cogs. I'll definately be wanting the two papers that are right side up. :lol: I think you've got my gmail address, but I'll pmail my regular one to you. Thanks. 8)


Rokcet Scientist

Re: H habilis

Post by Rokcet Scientist » Fri May 16, 2008 7:21 pm

Cognito wrote:So what happened to H. erectus? And if bones of H. sapiens have been dated to 195kya in Ethiopia, then IMO that the species "showed up" far earlier than 200kya.
As I understand it the current theory is that H. Erectus evolved into H. Heidelbergensis, which in turn evolved into two separate simultaneous species: H. Neandertalensis and H. Sapiens, which later – between 40,000 and 28,000 BP – merged into H. Sapiens Sapiens.
'Purer' HE/HH lines kept evolving on their own too. Occasionaly interbreeding with HN and HS (they kept bumping into each other over the aeons), and still with us today in the shapes of Aboriginals, Papuas, Melanesians, Pygmies, Bushmen, etc.

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Post by Ishtar » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:29 am

Interesting new book out, Neanderthal Legacy: Reawakening our Genetic and Cultural Origins:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1594 ... pe_snp_855
In NEANDERTHAL LEGACY, eminent psychologist and paranormal researcher Stan Gooch brings together the wide-ranging investigative strands of his lifetime of study of the human brain.

One of the world's leading experts on the influence of Neanderthal Man on the cultural and biological development of humanity, Gooch contends that the Neanderthals' enlarged cerebellum was a source of deep connection with the psychic and dream worlds, which remains extant in modern man in paranormal phenomena that conventional science cannot explain.

Gooch offers new scientific evidence of the crossbreeding between Neanderthals and Cro-Magnons that is responsible for the dichotomous nature of our feelings, thoughts, impressions, beliefs and even our cultural mores and politics.

The hybrid vigour produced by this mating has gifted modern man with abilities and sensibilities that the scientific establishment and conventional educational system entirely ignore.

The author explores the legacy of our Neanderthal ancestors in an effort to awaken their virtues and qualities, which are so needed in our modern world. · Examines the genetic evidence for Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon crossbreeding and the dual-nature effects this hybrid cross produced · Explains the influence of the Neanderthal's enlarged cerebellum on our modern brain function and psychic and paranormal abilities.

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:59 am

The hybrid vigour produced by this mating has gifted modern man with abilities and sensibilities that the scientific establishment and conventional educational system entirely ignore.
Anybody who's interested in being told 'I told you so!' should look back at some of my earlier posts! :lol:
I even argued that 'hybrid vigour' was the logical source of our advancement.
Can we call it the 'Digit Effect'? :lol:
(Hat, coat, door!)

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Post by Ishtar » Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:07 am

Tell you what, Dig.

We can call it 'the Digit Effect' if we can also call the non-invasion of Aryans into India - now much more widely accepted than when I first starting banging on about it - 'the Ishtar effect'. :lol:

What can I say? The rest of the world catches up with us eventually! 8)

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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:53 am

In NEANDERTHAL LEGACY, eminent psychologist and paranormal researcher Stan Gooch brings together the wide-ranging investigative strands of his lifetime of study of the human brain.

I take it that Gooch is not one of those who figure that Neanderthal meekly went extinct when we gloriously burst upon the scene?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Ishtar
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Post by Ishtar » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:00 am

Minimalist wrote:
In NEANDERTHAL LEGACY, eminent psychologist and paranormal researcher Stan Gooch brings together the wide-ranging investigative strands of his lifetime of study of the human brain.

I take it that Gooch is not one of those who figure that Neanderthal meekly went extinct when we gloriously burst upon the scene?
I don't know. But if he was, he'd be one of a Cecil B De Mille cast of thousands.

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