Peopling of Americas

The science or study of primitive societies and the nature of man.

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Roxanne
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Peopling of Americas

Post by Roxanne » Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:54 pm

Here is a cite to a new paper which argues that the America's were peopled after a glacier melt in several successive waves. Ineresting DNA studies and good pre and post glacial maps.


http://www.plos.org/press/pone-03-02-mulligan.pdf

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 021108.php

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:00 pm

Thank you, Roxanne. This will take a little while to study. It looks good.

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:18 pm

But while they were hanging out in Beringia until 15,000 years ago, who was living at James Adovasio's Meadowcroft site 16,000 years ago?

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 29297.html
In the 1930s, artifacts dating back 11,000 years were found near Clovis, New Mexico. The discovery led scientists to declare that the Clovis people were the first to populate North America.

That theory held strong until Meadowcroft. When radiocarbon dating tests came back in 1974 showing Meadowcroft artifacts dated back 16,000 years, a fierce debate began.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Rokcet Scientist

Re: Peopling of Americas

Post by Rokcet Scientist » Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:28 pm

Roxanne wrote:Here is a cite to a new paper which argues that the America's were peopled after a glacier melt in several successive waves. Ineresting DNA studies and good pre and post glacial maps.

http://www.plos.org/press/pone-03-02-mu ... 021108.php

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 021108.php
Hi Roxanne,

That first link gets me a "404 - page not found" notice.
The second link does not contain any images, of pre and post glacial maps, that I can see....
Something seems to have gone awry.

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:16 pm

http://www.plos.org/press/pone-03-02-mulligan.pdf

Here is the link that she posted in the News thread, RS.

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:56 pm

I fixed Roxanne's original link.

Ah....POWER!!!!!


:D
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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john
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Post by john » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:22 pm

Now, gang, the Windover site in Florida.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bog/america.html

Datable material plus dee-en-ay.

Gosh darn it;

They apparently aren't Amerinds.

And the instantaneous development of fine textiles by Beringian Siberian refugees who made a beeline to the kindly coast of Florida kind of leaves my mind reeling.......

On the other hand, maybe Florida was the retirement mecca for the Beringians. After all that snow and ice 4,000 miles to the North and West.

If so, the pull must have been strong for retirees with non-Asian haplotypes to trek thru Siberia and then across North America to get there.

I can hear the song now........."Faster dogs, younger women, older whiskey".

I can also sell you a bridge. I have a fine inventory.



john

They must have been mighty stout, and long lived.



p.s. As to the textiles - at a minimum those people had the cognitive ability to turn the concept of warp and weft, and twisted fibre into tools and cloth.

Here's the list:

Spot on knowledge of local plants and the techne to convert them into spinning fibre.

Drop-spindles for spinning fine gauge yarn.

Backstrap or frame loom, mounted with the warp, with handheld shuttles for the weft and a handheld sword, or beater bar, to pound the weft even.

They did not twine this cloth.

So where are we at?

6-10 k years ago in North America?

Comparable finds worldwide?

Enquiring minds want to know.

j
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain

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Cognito
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Migration

Post by Cognito » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:41 am

Interesting article in PLOS. However, it could support more than one conclusion. I read the chart on page 2 differently but with interest. As opposed to the period of 35Kbp to 15Kbp being named "Occupation of Beringia" renaming the chart as "Paleo Occupation of America" would explain all those paleo tools we find in the Western US that pre-date Clovis.

I find it difficult to believe that people would rush from Central Asia to Beringia 35Kbp and then just stop there for 20K years. What -- they didn't know about boats? And can you imagine the climate in Beringia at the height of the LGM? They're freezing their butts off in total darkness half the year! Northern Eurasia was depopulated from 24Kbp to 18Kbp but Beringia was different?:roll:
Natural selection favors the paranoid

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Post by Minimalist » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:53 am

I find it difficult to believe that people would rush from Central Asia to Beringia 35Kbp and then just stop there for 20K years.

I can think of nicer places to hang out than the edge of a glacier. How did that work? Did the leaders say:

"Hang on, boys.....it's melting. Any day now we can get through to Alaska."

Sorry. Hunters following the pack ice and killing sea mammals as they went along in their boats makes a hell of a lot more sense. And you could easily move 1-5000 people, in successive waves, in that manner.

But then, of course, you don't have to wait for the ice to melt, do you?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:06 am

I took a good look at this study yesterday evening. For Clovis Firsters, this is really a Dream Theory.

It answers the DNA questions about the Amerinds, showing that their last contact with Siberians was 30,000 yrs. ago.

It solves the question of why no Clovis points have been found in Siberia. They were developed in Beringia.

All of the proof/ disproof is buried under water.

IMO, this theory is BS. But I bet it's not going to go away. :P

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Cognito
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Proof

Post by Cognito » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:15 am

All of the proof/ disproof is buried under water.
Reminds me of Atlantis -- the Clovis firsters are getting desperate. :twisted:
Natural selection favors the paranoid

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:43 pm

They are like dinosaurs Cog, soon they'll be extinct!

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Thu Feb 14, 2008 1:57 pm

Oh. I thought you meant they'd be vegetarians on an ark.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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john
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Post by john » Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:26 pm

All -

Just to add fuel to the fire, here.........

Contemporaneous with, or earlier than the Club-sanctioned

Beringian Outbreak, or

The March of the Clovis (boy howdy, what a ring to that phrase!),

We have

A sophisticated culture in Florida

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bog/america.html

A sophisticated culture in Chile

http://www.unl.edu/rhames/monte_verde/MonteVerde.htm

http://www.cabrillo.edu/~crsmith/mverde.html

Another culture in Pennsylvania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadowcroft_Rockshelter

And, of course, Kennewick man

Clear up on the Columbia River in the Northwest, who,

By golly

Was not Amerind.

Matter of fact, none of them were Amerind, because

Those Beringian Pioneers of the Archaic Revolution were still figuring

Their footsore path through Alaska/Canada.

Florida.

Chile.

Pennsylvania.

Washington.

Think about it.

Boats, hematite?

john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain

kbs2244
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Post by kbs2244 » Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:00 pm

Arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic

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