Hominin in Spain 1.2 million years BP

The science or study of primitive societies and the nature of man.

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Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:22 pm

Still....most likely it was colder in the north and Spain and Dmanisi are fairly far south.
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Post by Beagle » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:51 pm

Fer sure. 8)

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Post by Rokcet Scientist » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:44 pm

Minimalist wrote:Still....most likely it was colder in the north and Spain and Dmanisi are fairly far south.
Spain benefits a bit from the Gulfstream as well, but Russian Sochi on the Black Sea – I think not 200 kiliometers from Dmanisi – is the site of the Winter Olympics in 2014, if I'm not mistaken. Not the balmiest of climates.

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Post by Minimalist » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:52 pm

There is a subtle difference between "cold" and "being under a mile of ice."
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:12 am

That's subtle Min? :lol:

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Post by Beagle » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:31 pm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... opean.html
Since we now know those [1997] fossils date to 900,000 [years ago], the time difference is not great, and, provisionally at least, I think it's logical to assign the mandible to Homo antecessor," said dig co-director José Maria Bermúdez de Castro of the National Research Center on Human Evolution in Burgos, Spain.

The new findings suggest that H. antecessor was most probably unique to Europe, the researchers say.
The earliest known human fossils found outside of Africa are from Dmanisi in the modern-day Republic of Georgia. Identified as either Homo erectus or Homo ergaster, the remains date to around 1.8 million years ago.

"The Republic of Georgia is at the gates of Europe," Bermúdez de Castro said. "It's the crossroads between Africa and Eurasia from a geographical point of view."

But H. erectus fossils estimated to be 1.6 million years old have been located as far away as Java in Indonesia, he noted.

Because of that, "we think that in Europe we are going to find more hominin fossils probably older than those of Sima del Elefante," Bermúdez de Castro said.
An abundance of small, insect-eating species suggests the climate then was generally warm and humid, the study added.
Some new info in this article. This notion of a new European species is going to mushroom - newswise. 8)

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Post by Minimalist » Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:47 pm

Some new info in this article. This notion of a new European species is going to mushroom - newswise.

Darwin suggests isolation is a prime factor in speciation. Perhaps the rising and falling of sea level in the Med was sufficient to cut off a population of HE in Spain and they evolved from there?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by john » Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:17 pm

Beagle wrote:http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... opean.html
Since we now know those [1997] fossils date to 900,000 [years ago], the time difference is not great, and, provisionally at least, I think it's logical to assign the mandible to Homo antecessor," said dig co-director José Maria Bermúdez de Castro of the National Research Center on Human Evolution in Burgos, Spain.

The new findings suggest that H. antecessor was most probably unique to Europe, the researchers say.
The earliest known human fossils found outside of Africa are from Dmanisi in the modern-day Republic of Georgia. Identified as either Homo erectus or Homo ergaster, the remains date to around 1.8 million years ago.

"The Republic of Georgia is at the gates of Europe," Bermúdez de Castro said. "It's the crossroads between Africa and Eurasia from a geographical point of view."

But H. erectus fossils estimated to be 1.6 million years old have been located as far away as Java in Indonesia, he noted.

Because of that, "we think that in Europe we are going to find more hominin fossils probably older than those of Sima del Elefante," Bermúdez de Castro said.
An abundance of small, insect-eating species suggests the climate then was generally warm and humid, the study added.
Some new info in this article. This notion of a n

ew European species is going to mushroom - newswise. 8)[/quote



So -

"The new findings suggest that H. antecessor was most probably unique to Europe, the researchers say."


Which indicates that antecessor was the precursor to both the Hn and He lines in Europe.

Not to mention heidelbergensis.

What we seem to have is an early enough occupation of both Europe and

Asia to establish an intra-continental development of speciation,

Rather than

The inter-continental theory of

Multiple "Out of Africa" occurrences.



hoka hey



john
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Digit
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Post by Digit » Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:12 am

All options are open IMO John, exciting times, and a few reps to be made and ruined.

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Speciation

Post by Cognito » Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:53 am

What we seem to have is an early enough occupation of both Europe and Asia to establish an intra-continental development of speciation, rather than the inter-continental theory of multiple "Out of Africa" occurrences.
John, this appears to be the most sensible conclusion given what evidence we have at this time. Speciation occurs in isolation and there were abundant opportunities for isolation over the last 2 million years in those locations. Now we are getting somewhere.
Natural selection favors the paranoid

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Bruce
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Post by Bruce » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:09 pm

1.2 mil in europe
1.2 mil in mexico

anybody checking with Valsequillo about dna matches?

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Post by Minimalist » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:45 pm

No but its a good idea.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by Rokcet Scientist » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:58 pm

Bruce wrote:1.2 mil in europe
1.2 mil in mexico

anybody checking with Valsequillo about dna matches?
Huh? Aren't there only footprints at Valsequillo? Is there bone material?

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Post by Beagle » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ideas/article/410660
But human remains found 10 years ago in the same Spanish region, and by the same team that found the jawbone, suggested the date was further back, to about 800,000 years ago. It prompted them to name them as a new and distinct species, Homo antecessor, or "Pioneer Man" – a move criticized by many at the time as premature.

Whatever its classification, the new discovery pushes the date for human occupation of Europe back further still. Noted Spanish anthropologist Eudald Carbonell,whose team unearthed the jaw last June, has no doubt of its significance.

"This find is incredible," he said after details of the discovery were published last month in the science journal Nature. "It's forceful evidence for a continual occupation in Europe from at least 1.3 million years ago."

Perhaps even before that. Primitive stone tools dating 300,000 years older still have been uncovered in Spain, as well as Italy and France, though as yet no human remains.
An update on the original article from Arch. News. 8)

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Post by Minimalist » Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:16 pm

"It's forceful evidence for a continual occupation in Europe from at least 1.3 million years ago."
:lol:
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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