Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

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Ishtar
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Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Ishtar » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:00 am

This hasn't reached the mainstream media yet ... I've translated it, through Google, from a Polish science journal ... hence the Tower of Babel babbling bits ... still, I think the gist is clear.

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Archaeologists led by prof. Pawel Valde-Nowak of the Institute of Archeology, Jagiellonian University, after many years of research in the cave Obłazowa (District Nowy Targ) reached rock bottom, and thus gave a complete stratigraphy position. The oldest and deepest layers are associated with the presence of the Neanderthal cave. During the last season of research, researchers also found further evidence for the celebration of human rituals inside the cave.

"At the bottom of wkopu formed in the upper Paleolithic, or about 30 thousand. Years ago, we discovered machined, for both cut and ground fossil snail shell Conus' - informs Professor. Valde-Nowak.

This is the third shell found inside the cave. Earlier, according to an archaeologist, are part of the ritual team from cultural layer pavlowskiej. "I do not exclude that the shell can be found musical instrument used by the shaman in the cave during the celebration of rituals" - said Prof. Valde-Nowak.
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Excavations inside the Cave Obłazowa started in 1985. Then the researchers did not realize yet the case, as an important function to fulfill pieninský cave Palaeolithic hunters and a dozen before tens of thousands of years. "Until 1985, so until such time as the first discoveries in the cave in Obłazowa, północnokarpackie position Palaeolithic Palaeolithic were associated with decline. However, we found traces of much older settlements, he dated the upper and middle Paleolithic" - explains Professor. Valde-Nowak.

Creates a cave chamber with a length of 9 m, which leads to a small hallway. The first traces of the use of the cave relate to Neanderthals. Found flint tools, which are performed.

Research went slowly, because, archeologists kilkucentymetrowymi immersed in layers, plus all the excavated spoil sifted on sieves. The stringent procedures have allowed researchers to record the residues of various animals, including small rodents. It is sensitive indicators, essential for any reconstruction of the surrounding environment of the cave.

The Cave Obłazowa spectacular discoveries were made - were found in the world's oldest known boomerang made of mammoth blow. Has more than 30 thousand. years and made him a man, as evidenced by him just discovered bone fragments of the fingers. It is the oldest so far discovered in the Polish lands anatomically modern human bones.

"With this comes a layer of horny perforator, two corner wedges of the characteristics associated with mining tools, siliceous rocks and three pendants przewierconych tusks from Arctic fox. In addition, two shells were found snail Conus extracted from fossil sediments. Supplemented group of items from organic material is an oval bead bone "- Professor adds. Valde-Nowak.

All of these items bear the traces of red coloring pigment - ocher. Part of stone tools made from raw materials originating from a distance, up to 300 hp - chocolate in the vicinity of flint and flint Ilza świeciechowskiego from around Annopol. The team with the sights of this layer are almost no mass-production-related waste flint, or quartering hunted animals, which are present in both earlier and later layers.

"The material gives the impression of thoroughly successful. Most of the sights can be considered as items of significant value to the contemporary man. In addition, the presence of human bones may suggest a partial or symbolic burial" - explains the professor. Valde-Nowak.

Particularly interesting interpretive possibilities concern uncovered fragments of a human hand, found in the company of ornaments, monuments of art and very rare items discovered Palaeolithic. According to the researcher, draws at least a few hypotheses.

"At the forefront of the recognition of clusters as a manifestation of shamanism, which was important symbolism of the human hand, so well documented representations of cave today France and Spain. Many of the hand by górnopaleolitycznego hunter recorded forever in the darkness of caves tamtejszych is not complete - missing parts of fingers. Among proposed interpretation of the plan first put forward to the ritual finger amputation segments, such as during initiation rites, and mourning "- explains the archaeologist.

The cave was inhabited Obłazowa repeatedly, not only in the older Stone Age. Archaeologists have found objects from the period of the late Middle Ages - among others. Iron Belt tip crossbow and fragments of pottery.

Over the last three years, excavations in the cave Obłazowa were financed with a grant of the Ministry of Science and Higher Education, who in two months is completed. Continue to work this year is thus dependent on finding other means.

PAP - Science in Poland, Simon Zdziebłowski
Original story in Polish here

We're discussing it on the Gate here

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Rokcet Scientist » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:34 am

Interesting!

But
"I do not exclude that the shell can be found musical instrument used by the shaman in the cave during the celebration of rituals"
hardly means there's any real reason to conclude that shamanic rituals were performed there. That sounds more like projection, a.k.a. wishful thinking...

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Ishtar » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:13 am

Yes, up to a point. But it is as much about how the items were laid out ... in a ritualistic fashion, and the fact that we know they used shells, although usually nautilus shells, for rituals.

Archaeologists, at long last, are learning to recognise the signs.

And don't forget the red ochre mentioned.... red ochre or hematite is always the calling card left where a shamanic ritual took place, as it has been right through the Aurignacian to even the indigenous practises today of the San Bushmen, Australian aborigines and many others.

Anyway, I was more interested in the "chocolate in the vicinity of flint..." Now that's a shamanic ritual I'd like to have been invited to! :lol:

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Minimalist » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:52 am

I've translated it, through Google, from a Polish science journal ... hence the Tower of Babel babbling bits
I'll say!
"With this comes a layer of horny perforator,
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Rokcet Scientist » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:24 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Google Translate seems quite 'predisposed'*. I'd say it's ready for the therapist's sofa...

*as do you for picking that up, of course :lol:

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Sam Salmon » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:01 pm

I can't read that translation-too disjointed.

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Minimalist » Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:53 pm

Sam Salmon wrote:I can't read that translation-too disjointed.

Here's a scary thought, Sam. Maybe the translation is fine and that is what the report really says?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by archaeo » Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:45 am

Ishtar wrote:... red ochre or hematite is always the calling card left where a shamanic ritual took place ....
Wow. And you know this how?

Red ochre is a mineral paint, used for decoration and burial marking.

Shaman is a mental category in "modern" or maybe "post-modern" minds.
There are no cultures with self-identifing "shaman" except New-Agers.

So now what, are New-Ager's "practicing Neanderthals" in the practicing Catholic sense? LOL at the absurdity of these speculations.
If I can't judge what the person next to me believes, why try to determine the beliefs of Neanderthals?

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Rokcet Scientist » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:26 pm

archaeo wrote:
Ishtar wrote:... red ochre or hematite is always the calling card left where a shamanic ritual took place ....
Wow. And you know this how?

Red ochre is a mineral paint, used for decoration and burial marking.

Shaman is a mental category in "modern" or maybe "post-modern" minds.
There are no cultures with self-identifing "shaman" except New-Agers.

So now what, are New-Ager's "practicing Neanderthals" in the practicing Catholic sense? LOL at the absurdity of these speculations.
If I can't judge what the person next to me believes, why try to determine the beliefs of Neanderthals?
Seconded.

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Minimalist » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:42 pm

Ish is perfectly capable of defending herself but, in her absence, I think the underlying idea is that HNS and HSS are effectively similar and that artistic or cosmetic touches served the same purpose in their society as it did among primitive HSS groups both ancient and modern. In much the same way that paleozoologists look at the behavior of modern animals to gain clues about ancient specimens.


Now, of course, Ish can drop in and tell us that we're all wrong!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Ishtar » Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:52 am

Nope ... you're doing just great, Min!

But archaeo, I would add that I'm not New Age ... I'm extremely Old Age in my thinking. I'm a practising shaman and shamanism goes back thousands of years at least. Most New Agers know nothing of all of this because it comes from shamans and mythologists working with archaeologists and anthropologists who together discover certain patterns running through human behaviour, like tree rings. And whether or not you believe "it is just mineral paint" is neither here nor there. It is what our ancestors believed that matters, whose thinking was not infected with the motto of scientific materialism: "Only matter matters." Even Einstein said that the Field is the sole governing agency of the particle, but the energy field is ignored in modern physics.

There is a whole body of work on this, if you would care to look ...even the Bradshaw Foundation has a display of hand cave art found throughout the world where the hand is always dipped in hematite before placing it on the rock, or hematite is put around the hand, like a stencil. You can see it here.

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by circumspice » Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:41 am

Ishtar wrote:Nope ... you're doing just great, Min!

But archaeo, I would add that I'm not New Age ... I'm extremely Old Age in my thinking. I'm a practising shaman and shamanism goes back thousands of years at least. Most New Agers know nothing of all of this because it comes from shamans and mythologists working with archaeologists and anthropologists who together discover certain patterns running through human behaviour, like tree rings. And whether or not you believe "it is just mineral paint" is neither here nor there. It is what our ancestors believed that matters, whose thinking was not infected with the motto of scientific materialism: "Only matter matters." Even Einstein said that the Field is the sole governing agency of the particle, but the energy field is ignored in modern physics.

There is a whole body of work on this, if you would care to look ...even the Bradshaw Foundation has a display of hand cave art found throughout the world where the hand is always dipped in hematite before placing it on the rock, or hematite is put around the hand, like a stencil. You can see it here.
The hand is not "always" dipped in hematite... Charcoal was an extremely common substance used in cave 'hand art', as were some other substances.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Ishtar » Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:29 am

Of course charcoal is sometimes used. They used other materials as well.

The "always" referred to the method used with hematite. The hand was always either dipped in the hematite or the hematite was sprayed around it. If it makes you happier, though, I'll say 'mostly'.

Jeez!

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Minimalist » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:30 pm

Nope ... you're doing just great, Min!

Whew! :wink:
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Neanderthal shamanic rituals carried out in Polish cave

Post by Rokcet Scientist » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:34 pm

Minimalist wrote:
Nope ... you're doing just great, Min!

Whew! :wink:
You skirted the curse there, Min!

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