Page 1 of 1

Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:45 pm
by Minimalist
https://www.rawstory.com/ancient-cave-p ... tudy-says/

Ancient cave painters may have been stoned, study says
According to a new paper in "Time and Mind: The Journal of Archaeology, Consciousness and Culture" by Tel Aviv University archaeologists, the humans who ventured into these subterranean enclosures during the Upper Paleolithic (50,000 to 12,000 years ago) would have needed to light torches in order to see what they were doing. In the process, they would have reduced the amount of oxygen in the caves, inducing hypoxia (oxygen-deprivation) in their brains. That, in turn, would have put them in a state of altered consciousness, experiencing euphoria, out-of-body experiences and perhaps even hallucinations.

The article referenced in the story from Haaretz in Israel is quite thorough but I realize that not everyone can access it. This Raw Story report gives the gist of the idea.

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:04 pm
by circumspice
I read this article & guffawed. Yeah, right... Early man braved tortuous crawls, total darkness, the threat of rock falls & entrapment, etc just to get high from anoxia... Some researchers are really digging in the bottom of the barrel to find something, ANYTHING, that will bring attention to their area of research. Early man, as well as a variety of animals already knew how to get high off of plants. Why take the risk in a hostile, subterranean environment? :roll: (yes, I know about the Pythia oracles, inhaling toxic gases to get in the groove for uttering nonsensical prophecies...)

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:02 am
by Minimalist
And yet, the rock art is there and I doubt that the caves have "evolved" in the last 20,000 years or so. They didn't get there by magic. Someone painted them.


So we could rephrase your comment to say "Early man braved tortuous crawls, total darkness, the threat of rock falls & entrapment, etc just to (get high from anoxia) paint on that particular wall."

It doesn't seem logical either way.

Yet, there they are. Perhaps logic was not involved?

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:21 pm
by circumspice
I didn't state that very well... I think the statement that the artists were high from hypoxia is egregious. I sincerely doubt that anyone with a lick of sense would remain in such an environment once they started feeling some effects of oxygen deprivation. Early humans almost certainly had a hyper developed sense of survival. Who wouldn't, considering the risks & challenges they routinely encountered? The parietal art is indeed there. So, why would a researcher make a statement that the artists were high because he believes that the artists were subjected to anoxic conditions? First of all, for the most part, the artwork is highly realistic. It's not surrealistic like Van Gogh's or Dali's or Pollock's... Another thing to consider... Current conditions in the caves don't necessarily reflect the conditions that were present when the art was first made. So how can someone make the leap that the artists were high??? What was it about the artwork that made the researchers determine that the artists were high? They didn't bother to elucidate on that highly subjective opinion. That's the point that I was trying to make. I think that they were employing click bait tactics to get the article read by more people.

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:40 am
by Minimalist
Maybe but people do some pretty stupid shit. Hence the popularity of these "Hold My Beer" memes!

Image

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:48 pm
by circumspice
If he didn't survive, or if he was unable to reproduce after a silly ass stunt like that... he joins the Darwin Club & gets an award.

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:34 pm
by Minimalist
Participation trophy?

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:52 am
by circumspice
Can you say "Too stupid to live" boys & girls? I knew you could!

A person becomes a member of the Darwin Club & receives a Darwin Award if he/she takes him/herself out of the gene pool in some manner that shows their lack of fitness to survive and/or procreate.

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:12 am
by circumspice
Finally!!! Someone with some sense discusses the popular theory that stone age humans were stoned out of their gourds when they created parietal art in caves. While not totally poo-pooing the theory, they instead discuss the types of art, the age of the art & the conditions of various caves where prehistoric art is located. They also discuss why the 'altered state' premise is so popular. Kudos to the authors of the article for a well balanced approach to to subject.


https://theconversation.com/prehistoric ... udy-159159

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:02 am
by Minimalist
There are probably different answers to different places. There was no overarching culture here. Each group adjusted to its own environment.

But I suspect that a hand stencil could be done in fairly short order, while this,


Image

took some time and required light. The artist here had some talent as well as imagination.

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:10 am
by circumspice
Not only talented, but also keen observers of the animals that they valued. Some of the painting are so compelling & realistic. I wish I had half the talent that some of those early artists had. I can't remember which cave or whether the animals were horses or caribou, but the artist sketched or painted a panel of them only from the neck up... it seems obvious that he/she was showing animals that were swimming across a river. Or another panel that somehow conveys the sense that the animals are in motion. Talk about realism... I've been a fan of cave art from an early age. I wouldn't hesitate to display reproductions of much of the cave art on my walls at home. It's beautiful artwork.

Re: Interesting Hypothesis

Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:16 am
by Minimalist
I can't draw a straight line, Circ, so I'm usually amazed by artistic talent.