Is the Jesus story an astrological allegory?

The study of religious or heroic legends and tales. One constant rule of mythology is that whatever happens amongst the gods or other mythical beings was in one sense or another a reflection of events on earth. Recorded myths and legends, perhaps preserved in literature or folklore, have an immediate interest to archaeology in trying to unravel the nature and meaning of ancient events and traditions.

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Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:02 am

Where some of that global warming when you need it?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:43 am

A new college level text is being published dealing with dating Hebraic writings. While I can't imagine anyone here, myself included, wading through such a text the thing promises to kick off a debate in the scholarly community.

http://www.equinoxpub.com/books/showbook.asp?bkid=139
The authors argue that the scholarly use of language in dating biblical texts, and even the traditional standpoint on the chronological development of biblical Hebrew, are in need of thorough re-evaluation. Therefore in addition to over-viewing this field of research both volumes are also a critique of scholarly assumptions and conclusions and an argument for a new approach to linguistic variety in biblical Hebrew. Throughout the chapters in Volume 1 the authors present different points in their outline and in Volume 2 they synthesise the entire argument in a single chapter. The authors argue that ‘Early’ Biblical Hebrew and ‘Late’ Biblical Hebrew do not represent different chronological periods in the history of biblical Hebrew, but instead represent co-existing styles of literary Hebrew throughout the biblical period
Somehow, I can't see the Documentary Hypothesis escaping unscathed in all this and the Fundies will be positively livid.


Of course, they are usually livid anyway.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by Forum Monk » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:22 am

So what does these books have to do with the allegorical Jesus? Also it seems there may be some significant challenge to the DH which would delight fundies.

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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:38 am

The thread has wandered all over the lot, Monk. You might be right but my guess, from reading that little blurb, is that Fundies will end up clinging to the DH like a life raft in a storm. Recall that Davies et al, are holding out that the OT was concocted in total in the aftermath of the Exile.

They might love to see the DH damaged but not in the way these fellows are suggesting.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by Forum Monk » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:46 am

Yeah, well the whole controversy will swirl around the term "archaic" hebrew. How archaic is it?

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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:36 am

Frankly, I'm not willing to sign up for the course to find out.

I am hoping that there will be some scholarly discussion hitting the web.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by kbs2244 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:18 pm

How “archaic” is Ish’s English compared to mine?
Of course there are regional differences!
But these guys are supposed to be professionals.
Haven’t they taken that into account?

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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:22 pm

I'm sure they feel that they have.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by Ishtar » Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:31 am

Forum Monk wrote:So what does these books have to do with the allegorical Jesus? Also it seems there may be some significant challenge to the DH which would delight fundies.
FM, this new theory may impinge on a discussion we had in this thread about the dating of Exodus.

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Post by Ishtar » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:26 am

I came across this the other day – it gives a good astrological explanation for the pagan (or pre-Christian) source for the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, which is celebrated by the Roman Catholic church on August 15 every year.

It’s from Manly P Hall’s The Secret Teachings of all the Ages which, in my view, is an excellent book even though it was written in the early 20th century. You can read it online at Sacred Texts: http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/sta/sta11.htm

my bolding
At the end of eight months, when the sun-god, having increased, traverses the eighth sign, he absorbs the celestial Virgin in his fiery course, and she disappears in the midst of the luminous rays and the glory of her son. This phenomenon, which takes place every year about the middle of August, gave rise to a festival which still exists, and in which it is supposed that the mother of Christ, laying aside her earthly life, is associated with the glory of her son, and is placed at his side in the heavens.

The Roman calendar of Columella (Col. 1. II. cap. ii. p. 429) marks the death or disappearance of Virgo at this period. The sun, he says, passes into Virgo on the thirteenth day before the kalends of September. This is where the Catholics place the Feast of the Assumption, or the reunion of the Virgin to her Son. This feast was formerly called the feast of the Passage of the Virgin (Beausobre, tome i. p. 350); and in the Library of the Fathers (Bibl. Part. vol. II. part ii. p. 212) we have an account of the Passage of the Blessed Virgin. The ancient Greeks and Romans fix the assumption of Astraea, who is also this same Virgin, on that day."

This Virgin mother, giving birth to the Sun God which Christianity has so faithfully preserved, is a reminder of the inscription concerning her Egyptian prototype, Isis, which appeared on the Temple of Sais: "The fruit which I have brought forth is the Sun." While the Virgin was associated with the moon by the early pagans, there is no doubt that they also understood her position as a constellation in the heavens, for nearly all the peoples of antiquity credit her as being the mother of the sun, and they realized that although the moon could not occupy that position, the sign of Virgo could, and did, give birth to the sun out of her side on the 25th day of December.

Albertus Magnus states, "We know that the sign of the Celestial Virgin rose over the Horizon at the moment at which we fix the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Among certain of the Arabian and Persian astronomers the three stars forming the sword belt of Orion were called the Magi who came to pay homage to the young Sun God. The author of Mankind--Their Origin and Destiny contributes the following additional information:

"In Cancer, which had risen to the meridian at midnight, is the constellation of the Stable and of the Ass. The ancients called it Præsepe Jovis. In the north the stars of the Bear are seen, called by the Arabians Martha and Mary, and also the coffin of Lazarus.

"Thus the esotericism of pagandom was embodied in Christianity, although its keys are lost. The Christian church blindly follows ancient customs, and when asked for a reason gives superficial and unsatisfactory explanations, either forgetting or ignoring the indisputable fact that each religion is based upon the secret doctrines of its predecessor.”

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Post by rich » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:14 am

I've got a 1978 copy of that book - B I G book! Has a lot of schtuffs in it.
i'm not lookin' for who or what made the earth - just who got me dizzy by makin it spin

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Post by Ishtar » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:01 am

It''s one of my favourite books!

I've been revisiting it lately, and reading it on the train to work. So I've been staggering on to the train, practically swaying under the weight of this giant tome while everyone else is carrying their summer Judith Krantz. 8)

rich
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Post by rich » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:17 am

That's a monster of a book to read on the train - at least if it's tha same dimensions that mine is. Yeow! About 11"x14"x1". Nice drk blue n' gold!
i'm not lookin' for who or what made the earth - just who got me dizzy by makin it spin

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Post by Ishtar » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:41 am

Mine is different dimensions - it's not quite as big, length and width-ways, but it's at least two inches thick.

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Post by rich » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:49 am

Still a good size, but at least a little more managable on a train!! :D Pretty good read tho for people into that stuff. Covers a lot.
i'm not lookin' for who or what made the earth - just who got me dizzy by makin it spin

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