Global warming.

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Mayonaze
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Global warming or location-inappropriate technology

Post by Mayonaze » Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:41 pm

POINT …

http://www.indiancountry.com/content.cfm?id=1096414324

“It's a dilemma taking on a new urgency as the effects of climate change escalate in a region many consider a harbinger of global warming. Erosion and flooding are nothing new here, but communities are increasingly vulnerable to melting permafrost and shorter periods of the shorefast ice that historically protected them from powerful storms.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/us/27 ... d0&ei=5090

“The earth beneath much of Alaska is not what it used to be. The permanently frozen subsoil, known as permafrost, upon which Newtok and so many other Native Alaskan villages rest, is melting, yielding to warming air temperatures and a warming ocean. Sea ice that would normally protect coastal villages is forming later in the year, allowing fall storms to pound away at the shoreline.”


COUNTERPOINT …

http://www.farnorthscience.com/2007/05/ ... ork-times/

”… widespread melting of permafrost has not occurred, and Newtok’s problem, while exceptionally dire, didn’t occur due to warming climate.”

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:25 am

It's ver sad Mayo but the modern generation has always had the idea that we exist separate from this world and that nature has been tamed. it is going to be a painful lesson for many.
DB!
My missus would hate you! She always objects to me arguing on the basis of logic and between us I think she wouldn't know which way to turn!
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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daybrown
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Post by daybrown » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:45 am

Your missus would have a lotta company if they knew what else I had to say.

I just finished Zimbardo, "the Lucifer effect", which I sorta skimmed cause a lot of it reports on psychological studies I already knew about. People dont think they way they think they think. Got that?

Most of what's been posted on Global warming arises not out of the data, but out of the spin on the data by those who have political and/or economic bases to defend or expand.

Zimbardo talks bout how children, when they are wearing halloween costumes, and therefore have hidden identities, they are much more aggressive. Likewise, the military uniforms and hidden millieu of prisons like Abu Gharib fosters abuse and aggression.

The net is also anonymous; we have this glass screen between us and everyone else, so people vent on it all the time, picking an issue like global warming or whatever, wherever there is any ambiguity at all to justify the most absurd positions.

Bush & his cronies do not remember being in denial about global warming. Not that it matters much. Even if Gore had taken office in 01, the Asian economies would have kept on expanding, perhaps even faster with the constraints on the American economy by Gore's efforts to reduce Greenhouse gases.

The weather models that tried to integrate Greenhouse Warming have also been ambiguous. So yes, there are more, and more powerful hurricanes. But damn Yankees are lucky, and what's happening is that they have been driven more directly west, and two now have creamed Mexico; as if they dont have enuf problems. And when one got inland, why then it rained in what had been the desert SW, greening up the range for rich ranchers like Bush.

Last year, there were, as predicted lots more hurricanes. And most of them clobbered China. I'm thinking of moving back to New Orleans for the winter. They dont want Blacks back, but they'd love my honkey ass.

Best bet for global warming, as most natural disasters as far back as we can trace civilization, is that those who suffer now, will suffer more. They are really good at it. Those who do not suffer at all, if it ever comes to it, will be expeditiously dragged out and shot. Hardly suffering at all.

If we look at those examples like the Maya, where the elites barracaded themselves in, I can expand that model to baracading the entire Ozarks, so that they can continue to live in their starter castles while the rest of the nation falls into compleat anarchy, genocide, & barbarism.

There's prolly 10 cows for every person, ie, tons of grass fed beef that will multiply itself indefinately while the rest of the world starves. And what your missus mite like, is that the whole show here will prolly be run by women, who already own a large part of the real estate. She like dykes?

And looking at the Maya, they didnt fall back into complete barbarism, but simply a diffuse agrarian village culture that was resisting the hegemony of the Aztecs. so likewise today, if the cities are abandoned, some people will again figure out how to live off the land in villages as their ancestors have been doing since global warming began 10,000 years ago.

Zimbardo, Milgram, Bandura, Janis, are actually all talking about the social peer pressure that village people evolved in order to survive a chaotic and largely unknown world. One of the photos Zimbardo shows from Abu Gharib is of a dude with his face painted. Bingo. The village warriors disguise their faces so they can rape, pillage, and burn with impunity, but at the peace negotations later, say:"what? who me?"
Any god watching me hasta be bored, and needs to get a life.

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:12 am

It doesn't take a prison etc to bring out the worst in people, just encase them in steel box with an engine and they lose all sense of decency. They will do and say things behind a wheel they wouldn't dream of face to face!
It's the hidden identity again.
We have just had an 11yr old child gunned down in the street by another kid and our government are lining up, in strict order of seniority, to condemn the action and indulge in the usual public exhibition of hand wringing.
Their answer to the massive increase in gun crime? Stricter gun controls, useless, as nobody has been murdered in this country for years with a legally owned weapon and , wait for it,-- ABCs.
This stands Acceptable Behaviour Contracts, the next time some junked up kid steals your vehicle he will face no punishment as long as he signs a piece of paper promising not to do it again!
God help us all!
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

kbs2244
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Post by kbs2244 » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:35 pm

It has nothing to do with Archeology, what do you think the economic and social consequences of the “Northwest Passage” finally being there from Europe to Asia will be?
Faster transit and therefore cheaper Japanese cars to Europe.
No pipeline needed Russian Artic slope oil to Europe.

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Bruce
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Post by Bruce » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:38 pm

http://www.livescience.com/environment/ ... bones.html

The club defends carbon dating.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/edi ... 67097.html
Now the permafrost is thawing on land and along the seabeds. If it occurs in the presence of oxygen on land, the decomposing of organic matter leads to the production of carbon dioxide. If the permafrost thaws along lake shelves, in the absence of oxygen, the decomposing matter releases methane. Methane is the most potent of the greenhouse gases, with a greenhouse effect 23 times that of carbon dioxide.

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:01 pm

If the NW Passage remains open throughout the year one of the things that comes to mind is that it would disrupt migration patterns for certain animals which could have economic as well as ecological results. If Canada successfully maintains its claim to the passage they could claim tolls, pollution would increase and somebody would rush to open the 'Polar Bar'. :lol:
Sorry folks, best I could do on the spur of the moment.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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Bruce
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Post by Bruce » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:39 pm

somebody would rush to open the 'Polar Bar'.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 61,00.html
PREVIOUSLY unknown islands are appearing as Arctic summer sea ice shrinks to record lows, raising questions about whether global warming is outpacing UN projections, experts say.
there you go Digit, your very own Private Island Polar Bar.

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:59 pm

Where can I buy one?
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:42 pm

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/ ... t-life.htm

DB, in a recent post, had concerns about melting perma frost and the thawing of ancient frozen carcasses, because of the threat of the revival of ancient organisms that we may have no immunity to.

This article is about that very thing. DB is right, according to this.

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Fri Aug 24, 2007 3:04 pm

First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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daybrown
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Post by daybrown » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:30 pm

Wow. We know of modern climbers now wearing ropes in case they fall into a crevass under the snow cover on a glacier.

So, how many more people are going to be found as the glaciers retreat?

There's going to be a limited opportunity to look before scavengers find the bodies.

In like manner, another effect of global warming is evaporation going on over the arctic, which then rains down on the deserts of Central Asia- the Kara Kum, Taklamakhan, & Gobi. Khotan had the heaviest snowfall on record last winter, and their records go back over 1000 years. Those deserts contain priceless organic matter, fabrics, food, etc, along with the natural mummies that will be destroyed if they get wet.

So- at the very time when this unprecidented opportunity exists, environmental degredation is affecting economics, and eroding the sources of funding. The link on microbes looks interesting as well, not only from the standpoint of pandemic risk assessment, but understanding the evolution of microscopic lifeforms which had not left fossils.
Any god watching me hasta be bored, and needs to get a life.

kbs2244
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Post by kbs2244 » Sat Aug 25, 2007 9:59 am

On the wolf bone thing.
Isle Royal and the La Brea Tar Pits are pretty far apart.
Their argument still depends on a constant exposure earth wide.
The comet theory speculates on there being "Pockets" of exposure higher or lower than the average, and therefore unreliable dating in those pockets.

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:08 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceN ... 5020070831
Today we feed the present world population of 6.3 billion from the 11 per cent of the land surface that can be used for serious food production. The question is: Will we be able to feed the 8.2 billion that we expect to populate the globe in 2020 if even less land is available for farming?," he said.

Africa, Latin America and parts of Asia -- where the climate is already more extreme and arid regions are common -- will be most affected as rainfall declines and its timing becomes less predictable, making water more scarce, he said.

But Europe, particularly around the Mediterranean, would also suffer from heat waves like those that this summer have led to devastating fires in Greece
Anybody fortunate enough to own a little bit of earth should learn to grow some food.

kbs2244
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Post by kbs2244 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:20 am

Rainfall cannot "decline"
It just falls someplace else.
The water cycle is a zero sum game.
If the hot sun evorates water in one place, the heat in the vapor will send to a cooler place, it will condense, and fall.
It has been going on for a real long time.

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