Hunting with poision

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

Moderators: Minimalist, MichelleH

kbs2244
Posts: 2472
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Hunting with poision

Post by kbs2244 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:26 pm

With all do respect to our old friend, Ish, referenced in the headline…
How do you find out what kind of locally produced poison will kill a whale with in a few days?

http://community.adn.com/adn/node/157287

Spiritually aside, they came up with a technique that worked, on a pound vs. pound basis, in one of the most remote places on the planet.

Has anyone looked for poison evidence at any of the mammoth sites further south?

Tiompan
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 5:13 am

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Tiompan » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:44 am

http://www.washacadsci.org/Journal/Jour ... Heizer.pdf
No mention of shamen , intersting that "essentially loner shamen" later in the article became "whaler shamen " at least the petroglyphys were given , surprisingly , a good luck /hunting interpretation .

George

kbs2244
Posts: 2472
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by kbs2244 » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:09 pm

Aren’t DNA tests being done on killed for meat remains?

Can a DNA test detect poison?

Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15807
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Minimalist » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:39 pm

I can't see Ish ever throwing a harpoon at a whale. She's just not the type.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Tiompan
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 5:13 am

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Tiompan » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:47 pm

kbs2244 wrote:Aren’t DNA tests being done on killed for meat remains?

Can a DNA test detect poison?
Surely the poison , like all poisons used for hunting , leaves no trace after a short time , otherwise you wouldn't be able to eat it .

George

User avatar
Digit
Posts: 6618
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Digit » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:47 pm

I find this very difficult to accept. The amount of poison needed to kill a large whale would seem to be way above that which could be smeared on to a spear/lance/harpoon.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

Tiompan
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 5:13 am

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Tiompan » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:43 am

Digit wrote:I find this very difficult to accept. The amount of poison needed to kill a large whale would seem to be way above that which could be smeared on to a spear/lance/harpoon.

Roy.

Amber Johnson in http://books.google.com/books/about/Pro ... xOYiOizkEC pps 155-158
considers that 2g is enough for a Bowhead whale & 1.5 g for a Humpback when crystal aconitine which is insoluble in water is used .

George

User avatar
Digit
Posts: 6618
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Digit » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:29 am

Fair enough George, but the link suggests a very long time before it dies, by which time it could be miles away, and in deep waters!

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

User avatar
Cognito
Posts: 1615
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:37 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Cognito » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:39 am

Can a DNA test detect poison?
A DNA test will perform an analysis on deoxyribonucleic acid, not toxins. However, a toxins test would find traces of any poison. But ... toxins break down in the body quickly due to enzymatic activity and there wouldn't be enough time for any traces to be left in the teeth or bones before death.

A whale being a mammal, and a smart one at that, Ish would stick to fish instead. :D
Natural selection favors the paranoid

kbs2244
Posts: 2472
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by kbs2244 » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:03 am

The video refers to the “monks hood” (Aconitum) plant as the source of the poison.

According to Wikipedia it is one of the poisons that attacks the nervous system and, in effect, paralyze to the point of stopping breathing or the heart beating.
It’s use seems to be pretty widespread from Nepal east through China and Japan.
(And from there to the Artic?)

I don’t know if it travels via the nervous system or the blood system, but some are supposed to work within minutes on a human sized target.

I would guess something like that would not get into the meat.
You may have to careful in the bleeding and butchering process though!

Don’t the Amazon Indianans use poison arrows when hunting?

Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15807
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Minimalist » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:59 am

A whale being a mammal, and a smart one at that, Ish would stick to fish instead.

Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day.

Teach a man to fish and he'll eat forever.

Give a man religion and he'll starve to death praying for a fish.


Me? I'll go to a seafood restaurant.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

User avatar
Digit
Posts: 6618
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Digit » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:35 am

Thus spake the God Min! :lol:

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15807
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Minimalist » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:05 pm

To my p-o-v God would be a wine steward.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

User avatar
Digit
Posts: 6618
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:22 pm
Location: Wales, UK

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Digit » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:16 pm

I don't know what your American wines taste like Min but I have to confess to a complete dislike of the French P***.
I find them thin, acid, and lacking in flavour.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15807
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Minimalist » Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:07 pm

I find most domestic wines fit only to dump on fires.

I like French and Italian (mainly northern Italian) reds.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Post Reply