Hunting with poision

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Digit
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Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Digit » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:10 pm

I find Spanish reds more palatable than anything French.
Strangely many British wines are now winning prizes over the French.
Over here there has been a proliferation in recent years of new micro breweries producing beers and ales in the traditional manner. Much less 'gassy' than the mechanically brewed stuff.
Cider seems to be coming more popular as well.
On another forum one of our loony leftists informed me that Islam invented mathematics. I pointed out that Islam never invented anything, it's a religion, and about the only useful thing the 'Arabic' world ever invented was distillation.
I await the horrified reply with interest.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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john
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Re: Hunting with poision

Post by john » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:34 pm

Horrified reply #1 -

"Some of my best friends are Arabs." Literally, as I've been living in Dubai for a time.

The Arab culture and history is complex and goes well beyond Islam in its antiquity, history and scope. Try at least 125,000 years back on the Arabian peninsula, if you want to get into the early man side of things.

Of course, the story of relations between the Arabic and Western European worlds is replete with mutual social and religious xenophobia, so a number of Western perceptions can be laid directly at the door of centuries of hysterical "yellow press" fear mongering, beginning, natch, with the PR machine of the inviolate, pure and holy Crusades............

This just for starters.


John
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain

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Digit
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Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Digit » Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:21 am

You will, I hope, notice that I differentiated between Arab, Arabic and Islam.
To most Brits an Arab is anyone from North Africa, all along the southern coast of the Med and, to many, Turkey, Iraq and Iran.
Another example of poor education I'm afraid.
Arabs are actually in a minority in Islam as you will be aware.
I repeat that Islam never invented anything, neither did any other religion.
Distillation was probably invented by the ancient Egyptians, they for the greater part are not Arabs, and certainly were not at that time!
The 'Islamic' world passed a very great deal to the west, their invasions aside of course, mainly via Spain. The Caliphate was moderate and many of its scholars were in fact Jews and Christians, but few were Arabs!
I also have met many Islamic people, from Nigeria, Iraq, Iran and Bahrain etc and my comments were not aimed at any individuals, but now is your chance to correct my statement.
Also I would ask you to qualify your statement that many of your friends are Arabs, where do they originate from?
We Brits are frequently informed that Palestinians, for example, are Arabs, which is rubbish!

Roy,
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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john
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Re: Hunting with poision

Post by john » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:58 am

Right......... let's clear away some of the underbrush here:

Yes, many of my friends are Arabs, i.e. Emirati and Saudi. Others are Arabic, i.e. from the Arabic speaking world (technically Arabic is a language, not a lineage); Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians, Iraquis.

For those who may be wondering wotinhell is being dissected here, see this map:

Image

It shows the expansion of the Caliphate in the 7th and 8th centuries from its home in the Arabian Peninsula to include Northern Africa and most of what is now called the Middle East.

The result of this was/is loosely called the Arabic world, whose lingua franca (not to mix metaphors too completely here!) is the Arabic language, despite multiple original cultures, religions and languages which still exist and persist.

Islam, though Muhammad was born in Mecca in what is now Saudi Arabia, obviously spread way further afield than the borders of the Caliphate empire at its maximum........

There is more and more evidence of several flourishing cultures in the Arabian Peninsula dating back to the bronze and iron ages, and - fast forward - obviously contemporaneous with ancient Egyptian culture (jump back, waaay back there, Zahi!). So the routes cultural cross-pollination actually followed (such as the "invention" of distillation) have hardly been discovered, let alone defined.

I trust this sheds a little more light on my post.

John
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain

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Digit
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Re: Hunting with poision

Post by Digit » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:24 am

I trust this sheds a little more light on my post.
But does not counter my comment John. As you say, Arabic is a language, yet Wiki actually uses the language as one of the definitions of Arabism.
One thing I do agree with you about is that there is a lot of misunderstandings about Islam/Arabism.
One of the reasons is the disparity between the Koran and Asian culture that is often traded as Islamism.
On distillation John you may well be correct as to the earliest example, but currently that is awarded to the Egyptians, thus till evidence to the contrary, I accept that.

Roy.
First people deny a thing, then they belittle it, then they say it was known all along! Von Humboldt

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