But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Minimalist » Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:55 pm

I don't know if you want to pick one but I have always been amused by the "Ice-Free Corridor."

The problem is less one of the corridor itself but more the idea that ancient people...being obviously too stupid to survive in their own environment...would leave warmer climes and head north towards the edge of a glacier. We have glaciers today ( although they do seem to be on the way out ) and they were/are not terribly hospital to mammals who need vegetation to survive.

So, even if there were people moving from Asia moving into North America I still think boats would have been the preferred means of transport... and for much the same reason as Stanford proposes the Solutreans coming from the other direction.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:57 pm

Minimalist wrote:
So, even if there were people moving from Asia moving into North America I still think boats would have been the preferred means of transport... and for much the same reason as Stanford proposes the Solutreans coming from the other direction.
James Dixon would agree with you. I think there were multiple groups that migrated at different times for different reasons with different technologies and genes. I have read that it takes a couple thousand people to have a decent survivable gene pool, or fewer for a not so decent pool. I think that it is likely that small groups moved in increments across the now buried continental shelves as best they could with or without watercraft. But, the people that camped at Monte Verde hauled tail, wherever they came from. I think the Clovis were moving north chasing the Bison. I think the people that were in Wisconsin, Hebior, Mud Lake and Schaffer, came from Cactus Hill via Meadowcroft. [The nice thing about a blog is that unproven conjecture is permissible.] If anyone was camping on the Snake River Plain when Bonneville catastrophically emptied through Red Rock , we'll never find any evidence of it, or Missoula or the Narrows at New York, for that matter. [Talking about having a bad day!]
How many times? How many people? They walked, stumbled, fought, rafted, sailed, ran, and gently moved from resource to the next resource, with stories and heritages that we will never know.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:58 pm

Maybe now would be a good time to introduce the PIDBA, The Paleoindian Database of the Americas.

The Paleoindian Database of the Americas
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Minimalist » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:02 pm

My own opinion is that some people see the sea as a barrier when what it should be seen as is a highway.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:20 am

Minimalist wrote:My own opinion is that some people see the sea as a barrier when what it should be seen as is a highway.
Indeed, but there is a lack of evidence because some ice melted and brought sea level up a mere 120 meters that makes it difficult to do research, and you know how those scientists are, gotta have evidence. But, we are not alone in our thinking:

Late Pleistocene colonization of North America from Northeast Asia: New insights from large-scale paleogeographic reconstructions
By E. James Dixon; 2011
Abstract
Advances in large-scale paleogeographic reconstruction define physical and environmental constraints relevant to understanding the timing and character of the first colonization of the Americas during the late Pleistocene. Diachronic mapping shows continental glaciers coalesced in central Canada during the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) 20,000–14,000 years ago while unglaciated refugia existed along the Northwest Coast. The Bering Land Bridge connected Asia and North America until about 10,000 years ago when the two continents were separated by rising sea level. This visual analysis from large-scale synthesis of recent geological and environmental research establishes timelines for biotically viable colonization corridors connecting eastern Beringia to southern North America and provides insights into probable Paleoindian origins and subsistence strategies.
The Kelp Highway Hypothesis: Marine Ecology, the Coastal Migration Theory, and the Peopling of the Americas
By: J. M. Erlandson, et. al. 2007
ABSTRACT
In this article, a collaborative effort between archaeologists and marine ecologists, we discuss the role kelp forest ecosystems may have played in facilitating the movement of maritime peoples from Asia to the Americas near the end of the Pleistocene. Growing in cool nearshore waters along rocky coastlines, kelp forests offer some of the most productive habitats on earth, with high primary productivity, magnified secondary productivity, and three-dimensional habitat supporting a diverse array of marine organisms. Today, extensive kelp forests are found around the North Pacific from Japan to Baja California. After a break in the tropics—where nearshore mangrove forests and coral reefs are highly productive—kelp forests are also found along the Andean Coast of South America. These Pacific Rim kelp forests support or shelter a wealth of shellfish, fish, marine mammals, seabirds, and seaweeds, resources heavily used historically by coastal peoples. By about 16,000 years ago, the North Pacific Coast offered a linear migration route, essentially unobstructed and entirely at sea level, from northeast Asia into the Americas. Recent reconstructions suggest that rising sea levels early in the postglacial created a highly convoluted and island-rich coast along Beringia's southern shore, conditions highly favorable to maritime hunter-gatherers. Along with the terrestrial resources available in adjacent landscapes, kelp forests and other nearshore habitats sheltered similar suites of food resources that required minimal adaptive adjustments for migrating coastal peoples. With reduced wave energy, holdfasts for boats, and productive fishing, these linear kelp forest ecosystems may have provided a kind of “kelp highway” for early maritime peoples colonizing the New World.
By: J. M. Erlandson, et. al.; 2005 (full pdf)
SEA OTTERS, SHELLFISH, AND HUMANS: 10,000 YEARS OF
ECOLOGICAL INTERACTION ON SAN MIGUEL ISLAND, CALIFORNIA
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

E.P. Grondine

Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by E.P. Grondine » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:22 am

Any information on late pleistocene sea turtles, farpoint?

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Minimalist » Wed Aug 01, 2012 9:31 am

Indeed, but there is a lack of evidence because some ice melted and brought sea level up a mere 120 meters that makes it difficult to do research, and you know how those scientists are, gotta have evidence.
Of course but if they are waiting to find a 50,000 year old boat they are out of luck. By definition boats are operated on water which is not the best preserver of organic materials. So what is left? Stone tools or bones. The tools we have and thanks to Kennewick Man we have some bones although not old enough for our present purposes. Stanford's contrast of the Siberian micro-blade technology with the Solutrean points seems a compelling argument. Somehow, people got here. We can rule out air travel.... unless the Ancient Aliens nuts get involved... and walking from Siberia to Southern Chile seems absurd, frankly. Even with sea level lower and the continental shelf exposed the land would have been cut with rivers and streams and people would have needed sea-faring technology to cross them in safety.

Let's also not forget the preponderance of Clovis sites in the East rather than the West.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:05 pm

Minimalist wrote:
Let's also not forget the preponderance of Clovis sites in the East rather than the West.
Look at figure 4 the paper below, and look at the author list. Hmmmmm
They are listed to be at the Santa Fe conference next year, but no Firestone.
But I digress, fig 4 is what is relevant.

by:
David G. Anderson a,*, Albert C. Goodyear b, James Kennett c, Allen West

Multiple lines of evidence for possible Human population decline/settlement reorganization during the early Younger Dryas
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:36 pm

E.P. Grondine wrote:Any information on late pleistocene sea turtles, farpoint?
No, but if I had to guess where there might be I would say the Page-Ladson report, which I have not acquired or read.

First Floridians and Last Mastodons: The Page-Ladson Site in the Aucilla River

I am waiting for the price to drop before I pick it up. I seem to have read somewhere that in the Florida sinkholes a turtle shell (sp???) was found associated with a possible human tool, bone shaft perhaps?

Sorry, thats all I got.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Minimalist » Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:41 pm

But I digress, fig 4 is what is relevant.

Yes. very interesting.

On a somewhat related note

Image

I've always wondered if the smaller size of Folsom simply represented hunting smaller targets.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Fri Aug 03, 2012 2:27 pm

The consensus opinion concurs with you. Interestingly, there are no cases of secure in situ Folsom points and proboscidea, that I know of. [So, if anyone knows of one please, please let me know.] Bison were the megafauna prey of choice and again, as far as I know, the only choice.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:01 pm

I have been re-reading Wilson M C 2008 Late Pleistocene northward-dispersing Bison Antiquus and I have a thought. The key to this thing may be the Bison (sp). [I am not claiming this to be an original idea, just that the "key" part is new to me.]

Late Pleistocene northward-dispersing Bison Antiquus

Also from Guthrie (2006), Hoffecker and Elias (2007) show that other than Mammuthus, the mega fauna were gone before the arrival of humans in eastern Beringia; north of the corridor.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:18 pm

Well, I am going to put this here because it is somewhat on point and it so rarely happens.


Lithic Materials and Paleolithic Societies

This pdf is the entire 305 page book with a chapter by K. Graf and T. Goebel.

Enjoy
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Minimalist » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:09 pm

I've got lots of good stuff to read now.


Now all I need is to find some time to read them!

:lol:
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Farpoint
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Re: But Still Clinging to the "Land Bridge"

Post by Farpoint » Tue Aug 07, 2012 7:27 pm

Minimalist wrote:I've got lots of good stuff to read now.


Now all I need is to find some time to read them!

:lol:
Image

It's not fair.........

Image
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873

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