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Archaeologica.org • View topic - Europeans in Michigan

Europeans in Michigan

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

Moderators: Minimalist, MichelleH

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby uniface » Wed May 01, 2013 9:47 am

Gladly.

"Better" presupposes that there's an alternative one.

In my estimation, yours is unique.
uniface
 

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby Minimalist » Wed May 01, 2013 10:13 am

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
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Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby uniface » Wed May 01, 2013 8:19 pm

Looks from your URL like outrage plus exclamation points (five in the span of eight sentences) plus selective omission of relevant information is the way "science" gets done on your end.

Not on mine :D
uniface
 

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby Minimalist » Thu May 02, 2013 10:12 am

I understand where you are coming from.

"Men willingly believe what they wish." - Julius Caesar

What the number of exclamation points has to do with anything escapes me but it doesn't bother me at all that native americans were able to do a little copper mining without having to drag in the fucking Phoenicians! (There, I gave you an exclamation point to make you feel better.)
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15589
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby E.P. Grondine » Thu May 02, 2013 5:59 pm

E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby uniface » Sat May 11, 2013 7:33 am

Excerpts :

The Bronze Age of Scandinavia (1750-500 BC) is characterized by the sudden appearance of bronze objects in Scandinavia, the sudden mass appearance of amber in Mycenaean graves, and the beginning of bedrock carvings of huge ships. We take this to indicate that people from the east Mediterranean arrived to Sweden on big ships over the Atlantic, carrying bronze objects from the south, which they traded for amber occurring in SE Sweden in the Ravlunda-Vitemölla–Kivik area.

It turns out that all examined Swedish subject except one - a slaggbit - comes from mines and ore deposits from sites in Cyprus, Sardinia, the Iberian Peninsula, the Massif Central in the current France, Tyrol and the British Isles. Copper has been transported, and in return it has been shipped back large amounts of amber. What emerges is a picture of a time when international contacts over large water was obvious, and there are already some 2000 years before the Vikings set off on their journeys.

The aim of this study is to further the discussion as to whether copper was extracted locally or imported to Sweden during the Bronze Age or if both of these practices could have coexisted. For this purpose, we have carried out lead isotope and chemical analyses of 33 bronze items, dated between 1600BC and 700BC. Among these are the famous Fröslunda shields and the large scrap hoard from Bräckan and other items from three regions in southern Sweden which are also renowned for their richness in copper ores. It is obvious from a comparison that the element and lead isotope compositions of the studied bronze items diverge greatly from those of spatially associated copper ores. Nor is there any good resemblance with other ores from Scandinavia, and it is concluded that the copper in these items must have been imported from elsewhere. The results furthermore indicate that there are variations in metal supply that are related to chronology, in agreement with other artefacts from Scandinavia as well as from other parts of Europe. Altogether these circumstances open up for a discussion regarding Scandinavia’s role in the maritime networks during the Bronze Age.

http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/ ... navia.html
uniface
 

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby Minimalist » Sat May 11, 2013 10:10 am

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15589
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby kbs2244 » Sat May 11, 2013 1:03 pm

There is a theory that the Scandinavians were the middle men in the copper trade.
Because of their foggy North Atlantic sailing ability they were able to get to MI via the St Lawrence and the Great Lakes to obtain the copper.

But due to their lack of knowledge about alloying it, they had to pass it on and then buy back the resulting bronze.
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Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby Minimalist » Sun May 12, 2013 3:06 pm

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15589
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby uniface » Sun May 12, 2013 3:55 pm

uniface
 

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby Minimalist » Sun May 12, 2013 4:54 pm

Perhaps you can tell me what this has to do with Clovis?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Minimalist
 
Posts: 15589
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby uniface » Sun May 12, 2013 7:28 pm

In order for people to leave inscriptions, they have to be there to leave them.

This is pretty self-evident.

In order to have been there, it is not necessary for them to leave stratified habitation sites that can be found and excavated.

Insisting that this is so is exactly what the Clovisoids insisted was the case with pre-Clovis man in the New World.

What they were really saying was that, in order for the Clovisoids to BELIEVE that there were people here before Clovis, yada yada yada. But that's another matter. It's no longer who was here, but if they believed something.

They confused the two and treated both as if they were synonymous.

They were not.
uniface
 

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun May 12, 2013 8:24 pm

I love the way that the proponents of these theories take what may be a few scattered artifacts at best and use them to construct imaginary European kingdoms in North America.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: Europeans in Michigan

Postby kbs2244 » Mon May 13, 2013 10:27 am

It is not a case of setting up “kingdoms” or even permanent settlements.
It was a case of pure opportunistic mining of the equivalent of the third world.

Summertime on Lake Superior can be nice.
Winter is brutal.
And the copper would be under snow in frozen ground.

The result is 3, or 4 at the most, month camps.
Hide tents and brush huts.
Things that rot.
The only things that would be left behind when winter came would be heavy stone tools with no use back home.
These tools have been found in abundance.
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Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

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