New PNAS paper on the Holocene Start Impact Event

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Re: New PNAS paper on the Holocene Start Impact Event

Postby Farpoint » Thu Jun 20, 2013 8:08 pm

It's just that I did not know. It's all good. I usually shut down when info goes into the Holocene. The late Pleistocene is overwhelming enough.
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Re: New PNAS paper on the Holocene Start Impact Event

Postby E.P. Grondine » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:42 pm

uniface wrote:
What Tony DeRegnaucourt told me was that only the Dalton and Fort Paine quarries continued in use in the east
during Phase 1.
Afterwards, Agate Basin forms predominate in the west.

Both seem to check out.


FWIW, I've suspected a glitch in the transmission there since reading your book. This is why : Fort Paine is a type of chert (actually, a geological formation that's exposed here and there going Northward up the Appalachians from Alabama). The best of it is very good quality chert indeed. As I understand it (and I'm not a geologist nor interested enough in geology to get on top of what all's involved) some outcroppings of it have different names assigned (e.g., Hopkinsville Chert, which is a variety of Ste. Genevieve Chert, which, I think is Ft. Paine formation).

The other principal paleo chert used in that general area was Dover Chert. It, too, was a Paleo mainstay. Stuff like Paoli Chert figures into the picture as well. But what isn't clear (to me, at least) is whether this was a stand-alone variety or a subspecies of one of the big two flying under independent colors.

Dalton was a culture (a different technology -- note that core/blade technology seems to be absent entirely in it -- with a different adaptation to the environment) that followed the Paleo era, although people sometimes assign it to Late Paleo. But overall, it seems to mark the beginning of geographically limited territoriality in time, where (in contrast to the Paleo era when people were wide-ranging) one band settled an area and made do with whatever resources it provided them. It contrasts with Clovis also in being geographically limited rather than pan-continental. (Beginning with Early Archaic, cultural territories begin to shrink. And shrink. And shrink).

"Dalton" is, of course, also a point type.

The stinky part is that nobody seems to be pursuing the Late Paleo era with much enthusiasm. Sites are very few, and a lot of changes (starting with climate) were going on during it. Late Paleo in the SE pretty much correlates with the "missing 1,400 years in New York). I believe it was Tankersley (The Archaeology of Kentucky -- an Update) that noted that the shift from Early Paleo (essentially Clovis) (Yahnig's Little River Complex for example) to Middle Paleo (frustratingly undescribed other than to note an increase in the prevalence of limaces and spurred, triangular endscrapers) also marks a shift to a wider range of lithic materials. (One of which would be Buffalo River Chert. But if that's a variety of Fort Paine, we're back to square one . . .) (LOTS of terminological confusion). And, going by examples of Late Paleo points & tools I've seen (Quad, Beaver Lake, et al.), they were pretty much using whatever chert was handy and usable.

Agate Basin (another point type) was one of a number of cultures (or whatever it's hip to call them this week) that evolved in the West and drifted (North) Eastward during what Dragoo insightfully characterised as the Aquaplano era. The pluvial lakes & grasslands in the West were tuning into deserts, and the fauna following the retreating margin of habitability. (People naturally following the animals). It's thus that you end up with native Western point types like Angostura, Agate Basin, Eden and Folsom points in Wisconsin, Illinois, Missouri & even further (North)East. Archaeologically, it's a black hole and pretty much lives up to the Marine Core's famous "Cluster Experience" description of such an event overall.

Temporally, in the West, Folsom marks the end of Paleo, while at least some others properly fall under the Paleoarchaic heading (or should). In the East, along with HiLo, Holcombe and the rest, it seems to be what's currently called Late Paleo.

At any rate, that's the backdrop against which your statement appears. It's not a "criticism" of it.


Hi uniface -

I believe you are correct in my faulty recall of Tony' comments on "Dalton" point types versus "Dover"quarry chert.
"Dover" it is. Thanks. :wink:

(In this regard I also need to bring up the confusion I've seen between Dalton and southern examples of Canadian Maritime Archaic.)

In my current estimate (which I reserve the right to change) the gap in the New York sequence after 8,500 BCE is most likely due to the introduction of European diseases by the Canadian Maritime Archaic populatlon. The quarry abandonment may also be seen furher down the East Coast, and that cultural discontinuity led to my earlier mis-dating of the Holocene Starrt Impact Event.

I am focused on the Ohio Valley now, but a few notes are in order.

When examining the New York sequence you have to keep in mind that the 14C dates need to be looked at carefully, as 14C prodfuction shows extreme regional variants due to the HSIE. The date of 10,850 BCE may be used for that impact event.

Following the HSIE, there was a period of melt, followed by a period of drainage. The geological data for the melt and the Mohawk-Hudson drainage will be very significant in understanding that lithics pattern.

If you have a phytolith sequences, they will define the ecological niches and game animals, hence influencing game types and the points used to kill them.

What may be fairly well asserted as fact is that the Five Nations survived the HSIE somewhere in the region south of "the lake", as they called it. This term most likely describes one of the predecessors of the current Great lakes.

Thanks for the materials on New York. Perhaps in the future I will be able to return to them.

PS - It is very tough to work through the issues when even the definition of "Paleo" varies from region to region.


Moving on to other issues, how the hell is any poor archie going to compete with this:

Image

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :twisted:
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: New PNAS paper on the Holocene Start Impact Event

Postby Farpoint » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:50 am

There is an archaeological site known as Jake Bluff (Bement et al; 2010; American Antiquity), that is a Clovis Bison kill. The next older Clovis site is the Domebo Mammoth kill site, the last mammoth kill known. At Jake bluff directly above the Clovis is a Folsom deposit that remains undated. Wittke et al do not mention Jake Bluff at all, yet it lies in the center of their "YBD Field" on page 2. Also, there is no "black mat" at Jake Bluff; but, in fairness, the site has not been tested for micro spherules. Below is a snip from Bement et al:

When calibrated, the four dates (excluding the outlier) yield a [1 sigma] average range of 12,825-12,850 cal BP with an intercept point at 12,838 cal BP. The Jake Bluff age postdates the Domebo mammoth kill, which is the latest southern plains mammoth kill with an age range of 12,873 to 12,917 cal BP. The recent reevaluation of Clovis radiocarbon ages (Waters and Stafford 2007) places Jake Bluff at the terminus of Clovis.


So, no mammoth at Jake Bluff, no black mat, the Clovis tool kit was present, and Folsom above, it seems to me to be a perfect site for testing for spherules.

Jake Bluff: Clovis Bison Hunting on the Southern Plains of North America
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
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Re: New PNAS paper on the Holocene Start Impact Event

Postby E.P. Grondine » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:47 am

Farpoint wrote:There is an archaeological site known as Jake Bluff (Bement et al; 2010; American Antiquity), that is a Clovis Bison kill. The next older Clovis site is the Domebo Mammoth kill site, the last mammoth kill known. At Jake bluff directly above the Clovis is a Folsom deposit that remains undated. Wittke et al do not mention Jake Bluff at all, yet it lies in the center of their "YBD Field" on page 2. Also, there is no "black mat" at Jake Bluff; but, in fairness, the site has not been tested for micro spherules. Below is a snip from Bement et al:

When calibrated, the four dates (excluding the outlier) yield a [1 sigma] average range of 12,825-12,850 cal BP with an intercept point at 12,838 cal BP. The Jake Bluff age postdates the Domebo mammoth kill, which is the latest southern plains mammoth kill with an age range of 12,873 to 12,917 cal BP. The recent reevaluation of Clovis radiocarbon ages (Waters and Stafford 2007) places Jake Bluff at the terminus of Clovis.


So, no mammoth at Jake Bluff, no black mat, the Clovis tool kit was present, and Folsom above, it seems to me to be a perfect site for testing for spherules.

Jake Bluff: Clovis Bison Hunting on the Southern Plains of North America


Hi farpoint -

You need to understand that I have identified a likely crater from the HSIE, but need around $10,000 to document it.

Thus from where I sit re-eamining the Jake Bluff Site (located at an arroyo (gully) in Oklahoma) and locating the impactite layer there is not all that high of a priority right now.

Other valuable information from the Jake Bluff site would be to recover the phytolith sequence there.
But you'd have to go down to where the arroyo drains and leaves sediment layers to find either.

(I would advise anyone working in New York to contact Dallas Abbott and discuss the New York sequence with her before working on it. My apologies for not catching the shift in regions in this thread, but I am overloaded. A local person's father "collected" a rich Oklahoma clovis site many years ago. With a through records search, it migh be possible to locate it.)

(There are two likely locales here in Ohio which are likely to hold pre-clovis, clovis, paleo phases, places which need to be field walked, if that is your interest.)

(I am working on getting better images of the pictographs which I mentioned here at this bbs earlier.)

(Aside from that, in ethnogrphic work, there is Shawnee material from Ohio that needs to be published, as well as new Martin Chartier papers.)

(And reading through the Shawnee Overlook site materials.)

Thus while that site certainly sounds interesting, as you can see I have more pressing work to do.

Further, due to its location in an arroyo, it has limited value in terms of documenting the Holocene Start Impact Event, in my opinion.
E.P. Grondine
 

Re: New PNAS paper on the Holocene Start Impact Event

Postby Farpoint » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:41 pm

This came out today and I just printed it, I'll get back after I've read it.

New Evidence from a Black Mat Site in the Northern Andes Supporting a Cosmic Impact 12,800 Years Ago

That's OK EP, do your own thing.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right question.

"The track of a glacier is as unmistakable as that of a man or a bear, and is as significant and trustworthy as any other legible inscription"
John Strong Newberry; 1873
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Re: New PNAS paper on the Holocene Start Impact Event

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:48 am

Thanks for your comments, uni.

Of course, you are correct, in that I recalled "Dalton" instead of "Dover".
I was hoping to work this through with Tony over pizza and beer (for him), but alas...

As far as early sites goes, most field hunters with knapping experience are generally of the opinion that
"most archaeologists could not find their butts using both hands."
Native Americans and those of descent are generally of the opinion that
"they'd starve".

Without a very good understanding of both the paleo landscape and animal behavior,
it is difficult to locate sites.

I have located a very good candidate site in Ohio,
and have some idea of who I'd use to do a field survey of it.
Doing this would take money I do not have, and I have limited mobility myself and not very good "field eyes".
And of course there are always permissions to get, but first things first.
E.P. Grondine
 

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