A real impact mega tsnunami

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A real impact mega tsnunami

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:26 am

E.P. Grondine

Re: A real impact mega tsnunami

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:27 am

http://cosmictusk.com/hurricane-or-tsun ... -hastings/

Dating notes. For dating of an earlier impact megatsunami see:


at about 1000 BCE.

The Tuscarora emigrated into the depopulated area.

My note on Tuscarora memories of the destruction of the fourth division of the Tuscarora by impact mega-tsunaim ca. 585 CE is sadly no longer available online:


This one may share the date for an Atlantic impact tsunami that hit Atlantic France:
Last edited by E.P. Grondine on Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
E.P. Grondine

Re: A real impact mega tsnunami

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:34 am

I'll try to get the Tuscarora account with global analysis to you by Wednesday.
E.P. Grondine

Re: A real impact mega tsnunami

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:59 am

This tsunami also hit the coast of Atlantic France, which records narrow the absolute date of the impact:

E.P. Grondine

Re: A real impact mega tsnunami

Postby E.P. Grondine » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:29 am

I am very glad that the archaeologica bbs is back running and has been secured against hacker attacks.

Also, a geological demonstration of a native traditional history statement is very nice.
E.P. Grondine

Re: A real impact mega tsnunami

Postby E.P. Grondine » Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:58 pm

There is another possibility which I did not think of at first:

The Gulf of Mexico or Atlantic Ocean may have been hit by another fragment of the impactor which took out Key Marco in 952( my memory is not that good, but this was tree ring dating); another fragment appears to have hit in the Bald Mountains, leading to Pisgah culture emerging in the depopulated area.

We'll have to see what the data tellls.
It's likely to be messy because of the repeated hits.
E.P. Grondine

Re: A real impact mega tsnunami

Postby E.P. Grondine » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:47 pm

I located this account in 2006 during a trip through North Carolina adnd posted to the Cambridge Conference at that time. I need to give a thank you here to the staff at the Halifax library. The material given here was adapted for the book "The Tuscaroras: Volume 1, Mythology, Medicine and Culture", Frank Roy Johnson ed., Johnson Publishing Company, Murfreesboro, North Carolina, 1967.


"More feared than the Ke-nea-rah-yah-neh ("Flying Head" - "tornado" properly) was the Fire-Dragon which the Tuscaroras called "Kahastinens". He was one of the more ancient of the supernaturals, having by his power of sorcery tricked the Chief of Skyland [the Holder of the Heavens] at the opening of the second cosmologic[al] period.

[This is a most likely reference to second major impact, as the Tuscarora held a different tradition concerning the Holocene Start Impact Event.]

"Late in the nineteenth century the belief was still current among the Tuscaroras and other Iroquois "in the existence of enormous tri-form monsters, having the head, breast, and shoulders of a panther; the wings and claws of an eagle; and the body of a huge serpent." The monster's mouth and eyes were said to "emit fire and balls of light" while lambent flames played over its entire length of about two bow shots and girth of corresponding proportions.

"Its abode was at the bottom of great lakes, like the North Carolina Sounds, the Great Lakes, and sometimes lesser bodies of water. It came forth at night, at which time it flew across the sky making its way from one lake to another. He who was nearby could hear the waters boil and hiss when the flame-enveloped monster plunged into a lake. [electrophorenic sound?]

"Sometimes "Kahastinens" ["comet" properly] was regarded as an ill omen. At other times he threatened the light of night and day, attempting to swallow the Sun or [the] Moon. At such times the light bodies went into eclipse; the terror stricken people shouted shot arrows at the supposed monster, urged their dogs to bay and howl at him, and beat drums and kettles to frighten the demon away.

"J.N.B. Hewitt says that a study of the components of the Fire-Dragon's name [Kahastinens] indicates the "shooting light or star" accounts for his origin."
(Page 72)


As adapted by Johnson from the telling recorded by J.N.B. Hewitt, "A Competitive Exhibition of Wizard Power", Smithsonian Office of Anthropology, Bureau of American Ethnology Manuscript Collection, 1890, 3 pages, informant not further identified.

"Many years ago among the Tuscaroras it was given out that an exhibition of the power of wizards in the nation would be given at a certain lake, circular and not very large [?], and that the public would be invited to it merely as spectators.

"Several days before the day appointed for the event, all of the wizards hunted for three successive days, and the carcasses of all the things that they killed were thrown into the lake. After the elapse of three more days, the performance of the weird craft were held.

"The wizards sat all around the lake, and when it became twilight, the appointed time having arrived, one of the wizards began to sing his medicine song. As an exhibition of his skill he could only make an eddy flit or skim in various directions on the surface of the water. The people stood aghast, astonished at the exhibition of such uncanny power.

"After a while one of the other wizards laughed scornfully and said, "Ha, ha, ha. That is not much; it is indeed nothing." So he began to sing [his medicine song], and finally paused in his song when a fish skimmed along the surface of the water.

"Another wizard [then] laughed and said, "Oh, ha, that is nothing; that is nothing curious [remarkable or unusual]." He began to sing [his medicine song] and then stopped: Then rose slowly from the midst of the lake a serpent, showing one half of its body, and then [it] disappeared. [This was a "kahastinens"'s impact plume.]

"[Then] the fourth wizard laughed and said, "Why that is nothing; that is not wonderful." Then he began singing [his medicine song], and finally [he] stopped: and the water in the middle of the lake rose up like a mound, and a Bull Buffalo rose from the turbulence of the waters and then sank down again. [This is typical tsunami behavior - water goes out, comes back in with vengeance.]

"Whereupon the wizard told the people to retire from the shore of the lake. And then rose again the Buffalo showing great rage, and after walking around on the surface of the lake, a Fire-Dragon [Kahastinens] burst from its surface, splattering the water over the people.

"Then both the Buffalo and the Dragon disappeared, for all the people [had] fled terror stricken, and the discomfited wizards as well." (page 141)


It is clear that the original Tuscarora traditions were heavily edited by the anthropologists to fit with their modern scientific understandings of the 1890s and 1950s. From the description of the "Kahastinens" it should be clear that they included not only simple meteors ("shooting star"s), but also asteroids and cometary impactors. It is also interesting to note that the Tuscaroras associated them with the dimming of sunlight from their dust loads.

At the time of European contact the various tribes which composed the Tuscarora family of the Iroquoian peoples lived on the west and east sides of the Carolina Sounds, and had three divisions, not the four mentioned in this account. The forth division was most likely washed away by this impact mega-tsunami.

Since impact mega-tsunami's in the Atlantic Ocean traveled in all directions, this one should also show up in European records. Given the physical evidence, my guess is that this one
took place in 585 CE, the same time the French remembered the loss of two islands in the sea:

Of course, only tree ring evidence gathered from buried tsunami deposits could provide an exact date.

As you know the Sounds are bodies of water separated from the Atlantic Ocean by the Carolina Banks, which banks are usually and generally assumed to have been formed by the gradual accretion of eroded soil on the edge of the continental shelf. However, according to one of my local informants in 2006, the US Geological Survey had recently been boring test holes along the western shores of the Carolina Sounds, and these drillings indicated that those western shores of the sounds were the coast of the Atlantic Ocean as recently as 15 feet ago.

While the USGS cores have not been published yet, it is possible that the Carolina Banks themselves are mega-tsunami deposits, or they may be related to Teay's River sediments.

The arrival of the Tuscarora family in this region can be associated with the appearance of the Vincent Culture. The Vincent Culture is separated from the Savannah Culture by 12 inches of "flood" deposits at the Baucom site, the formation of which may be associated with the Great Atlantic Mega-Tsunami of ca. 1000 BCE. The destroyed archaic complexes at the mouth of the Roanoke River (Plymouth (Fort Grey)) and at the rapids of the Roanoke River (Halifax) are also liekly related to the occurrence of this "flood" deposit. For other accounts of the ca. 1,000 BCE impact mega-tsunami see "Man and Impact in the Americas".

PS - I am g*d damn fucking sick of denial trying to pass itself off as scepticism.
Referring to the First Peoples as "drunk and stoned Indians sitting around a campfire" is racist crap.
Pretending that there is no relationship between material cultures and tribal groups is racist crap.

Pretending that comets and comet fragments do not hit
because those impacts do not match your model
is petty bullshit, not science.
E.P. Grondine

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