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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:48 am
by kbs2244

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:43 pm
by Cognito
KB, interesting take on the Beringea Hypothesis.

Still, no mention that animals (& humans) were moving across the landscape in both directions, not just from west to east (unless, of course, there were Paleolithic traffic cops patrolling the area with
one-way traffic signs). :D

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:27 pm
by Minimalist
I still wonder why animals would be heading north at all during an Ice Age, Cogs. Herbivores need plant life and carnivores follow the herbivores. Since we must have a deep ice age in order for Beringia to be uncovered we still have to deal with the idea of all this plant life growing at the time.

T'is a puzzle.

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:21 pm
by circumspice
I think that most migrations are never one way. It would seem silly to press on into the unknown during adverse conditions when you can retrace your steps back to a more familiar & possibly less harsh environment... It may just be me, but I think that most people (let's exclude Oceania, ok?) ebbed & flowed across the landscape as conditions warranted. That may be why we find caches of items that are necessary to survival. An early form of insurance maybe?

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:37 am
by Cognito
I still wonder why animals would be heading north at all during an Ice Age, Cogs. Herbivores need plant life and carnivores follow the herbivores. Since we must have a deep ice age in order for Beringia to be uncovered we still have to deal with the idea of all this plant life growing at the time.

Min, from the article:

"As the deep freeze set in, though, humans in many parts of the world abandoned their old hunting grounds, moving to areas where food was still abundant enough for survival. Those living along the Yana River may have fled south, but recent research suggests they had another option: heading east to Beringia.

Changes in the jet stream had created a relatively welcoming climate there—according to one model, parts of southeastern Beringia may have been as much as 8 °C warmer than today. Winter temperatures plummeted to -40 °C in some areas—cold, but for people adapted to life on the northern Siberian steppe, survivable. Spring brought the return of light, and a thawing of the soil above the permafrost. The forbs began to unfurl their leaves. The first flowers—from little blue asters to white clover—injected color into the brown tundra. By summer, bison, mammoths, and horses fattened on the land. Flora as diverse as shrub willows, flowering plants, grasses, and sphagnum moss all flourished, and fossil studies point to a wealth of fauna, from beetles, lemmings, and ptarmigan to moose and grizzly bears. If Beringia was a refuge for plants and animals, why not people?

The underlying in the quote is mine. Maybe Beringea wasn't such a bad place to hunt in the LGM? I can see herds moving into new forage areas on the cusp of their migrations when the flora was there and predators (including humans) were initially few, if any.

While the inland portion of Beringea would experience temperatures dropping to -40°C over winter, the seashore areas at that time would be far more mild with the Japanese current headed north and east along the coast. And yes, think boats too! :D

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:00 pm
by Kalopin
In 1993, the United Nations Center for Human Rights, recognized the Washitaw de Dugdahmoundyah Muur Empire as the Oldest Indigenous group of people on Earth...

...we are living under another ideological part of American Revisionist History. Also, the following undermines the whole breadth and depth of what is written in American history books...

...The Washitaw were direct descendants of the Olmecs who mixed in the Malian Moors...

Over 200,000 ancient pyramids and huge mounds of the Earth in the shape of cones, animals and geometric designs can still be found from the southern coast of America to Canada. These structures were built by people known as "The Mound Builders." They were dark-skinned woolly-haired Blacks who were indigenous (native) to North America and kin to the Olmecs of South America.

During Pangea, the Afrikan and American continents were joined. The Black Mound Builders were the Washitaw-Muurs (Ouachita-Moors), the ORIGINAL inhabitants of North and South America...

He [purposely?] leaves out the Mississippians, who were the forefathers of the Chickasaw, also "mound builders", who, I believe were here even before the Olmecs... ... bes-005774
Several Native American tribes have passed down legends of a race of white giants who were wiped out...
...As a race the Chickasaws were tall and erect, and robust...
...Bartram said: "As a moral man, they certainly stand in no need of European civilization. They are honest, liberal, and hospitable to strangers; considerate, loving and affectionate to their wives and relatives; fond of their children; industrious, frugal, temperate and persevering; charitable and forbearing. I have been weeks and months among them in their towns, and never observed the least sign of an Indian beating his wife or even reproving in anger. In this case the stand as examples of reproof to the most civilized nations, as not being defective in justice, gratitude, and good understanding; they are industrious, frugal, careful, loving, and affectionate."

Lawson said," They will endure a great many misfortunes, losses and disappointments without showing themselves the least vexed and uneasy"...
...From their closely related languages, the Chickasaw and Choctaw appear to have been part of the same tribe when they lived west of the Mississippi River. Afterwards, they went separate ways... ... -Past.aspx
...But archaeologists who have studied Southeastern prehistoric human remains and artifacts believe that the ancestors of the Chickasaws and most other Southeastern tribes were the highly centralized, mound-building Indians of the so-called Mississippian Period...

...there is so much misinformation and misunderstandings, due to so much war and catastrophe, that it will be difficult to know what had actually occurred, [...without first understanding why the north American continent had become so devoid of life to "begin" with...], [approx. 13kya-YDB, & what ended the Clovis culture, & the reason the Chickasaw ceded their land ;-]...

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:51 pm
by circumspice

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:20 pm
by shawomet
Excellent article. One more component of the peopling of the Americas puzzle to mull over. Sounds like they believe there was ice blocking the way east or west for a period. I imagine that would isolate some animals as well as the humans. But still some inconsistencies enough to keep the debate about the Beringian Standstill Model just that, a model. A Pacific kelp highway route into the Americas seems best to explain sites like Monte Verde.

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:08 pm
by Minimalist

" And yes, think boats too! "

I don't think animals could build boats, though. As you say, early humans were predators. Like all other predators they would follow the prey animals. This doesn't happen like the flip of a switch and I can't see animals doing anything other than moving in the direction of the plant life.

And if they had boats, they didn't need Beringia.

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:18 am
by shawomet
Methinks boats came into play at some point. We know seafaring is very ancient. A seaweed diet at Monte Verde. And lots of seaweed in between. And plenty of prey as well, in the form of abundant sea mammals, as well as fish. ... hypothesis

"Today, the Coastal Migration Theory has gone from marginal to mainstream as evidence for early fishing and seafaring has accumulated around the Pacific Rim and the rest of the world. It is now known that Island Southeast Asia, Australia, western Melanesia, and the Ryukyu Islands were settled by seafaring peoples between ~50,000 and 35,000 years ago, and California’s Channel Islands were settled at least 13,000 years ago. The tide also turned with the identification of several types of seaweed at the Monte Verde II site near the coast of Chile, dated to ~14,000 years ago. Recent geological research suggests that the ice-free corridor was still closed at that time, while the coastal route appears to have been open by ~16,000 years ago."

Perhaps they needed to wait until a coastal kelp highway route became open, about 16,000 years ago as suggested.... ... slarch.pdf

"In this article, a collaborative effort between archaeologists and marine ecologists, we discuss the role kelp forest ecosystems may have played in facilitating the movement of maritime peoples from Asia to the Americas near the end of the Pleistocene. Growing in cool nearshore waters along rocky coastlines, kelp forests offer some of the most productive habitats on earth, with high primary productivity, magnified secondary productivity, and three-dimensional habitat supporting a diverse array of marine organisms. Today, extensive kelp forests are found around the North Pacific from Japan to Baja California. After a break in the tropics—where nearshore mangrove forests and coral reefs are highly productive—kelp forests are also found along the Andean Coast of South America. These Pacific Rim kelp forests support or shelter a wealth of shellfish, fish, marine mammals, seabirds, and seaweeds, resources heavily used historically by coastal peoples. By about 16,000 years ago, the North Pacific Coast offered a linear migration route, essentially unobstructed and entirely at sea level, from northeast Asia into the Americas. Recent reconstructions suggest that rising sea levels early in the postglacial created a highly convoluted and island-rich coast along Beringia’s southern shore, conditions highly favorable to maritime hunter-gatherers. Along with the terrestrial resources available in adjacent landscapes, kelp forests and other nearshore habitats sheltered similar suites of food resources that required minimal adap- tive adjustments for migrating coastal peoples. With reduced wave energy, holdfasts for boats, and productive fishing, these linear kelp forest ecosystems may have provided a kind of “kelp highway” for early maritime peoples colonizing the New World."

(Sounds like boats would not have been feasible much earlier then 16,000 years ago. As well, Beringia sounds like a resource rich area. But, once the way was open to explore to the south of Beringia, that opportunity was met head on. And likely by maritime travel....)

Re: Beringia

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:16 pm
by Kalopin ... bes-005774
“They excelled every other nation which was flourished, either before or since, in all manner of cunning handicraft—were brave and warlike—ruling over the land they had wrested from its ancient possessors with a high and haughty hand. Compared with them the palefaces of the present day were pygmies, in both art and arms. …”

[, it's good to know that, at least you all understand that-...;-] ...any form of life that had existed during the Pleistocene, which was living anywhere beneath or near to the ejecta blanket strewn field would have been instantly incinerated [vaporized!]and that, approx. 13kya, the entire north American continent was basically sterilized [the impact spherules reached to over 2200*C] from a massive impact [the Moon to the Mediterranean...]
I have little doubt that many of the survivors understood much, if not all, of what had occurred and immediately set out to find anyone else who may have survived... [the reason there were "giants" in the Americas many thousands years ago...]

...and so, it would make sense to understand the YDB and to adjust dating accordingly? It appears [by studying satellite views,] that Beringia is well attached to the north American continent and that this may have been a land bridge after Asia and America made contact, during the Clovis period and that this was covered by ocean, as well as many other areas [the English channel...] when a comet struck the Hudson bay emptying out lake Agassiz... [as all this is written in the geography and recorded in sedimentary layers and ice core data...] So from about 12,980 years ago to around 10,500 years ago, it appears Beringia was slightly above water, but that there were many advanced civilizations who had known what had occurred...
[...digging a little deeper...;-]