Contact Early Possible European Descendants

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Contact Early Possible European Descendants

Postby gunny » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:34 am

Fascinated with early reports of possible European heritage Indian tribe, Read a book, as a teenager, about a journal kept by an educated trapper on one of the expeditions out of St, Louis in the 1820s. Mother sold my books when it was reported I had been killed in battle. Premature, only shot in the butt. Got that ahole. Anyway, seems they found this small tribe of red/blond haired Indians in a remote valley that could speak Welch to a Welsh trapper. He said they told him they had come from the east many years ago. When they came again to this village in the spring, after a winter of trapping to the west, all were dead. Appeared some died before they were buried. Smallpox or other disease had killed them all. If I was not so damn old, it would be a facinating subject to explore for MS or PHd.
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Postby Forum Monk » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:30 am

An interesting remark, but I wonder about calling them Indians, in the sense they were indigenous. There are reports in my own family history of one remote ancestor making a living as a hunter in Arkansas around the turn of the 19th century. There is a ridge there that bears our surname. (not Monk's Ridge either :wink: ) Missouri and Arkansas were indeed quite primitive and pioneers were more nomadic making a living hunting, or trapping. They often adopted the native ways and married native women because pickins were scarce out there and the native women were better adapted to the harsh life. :?
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Postby Minimalist » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:55 am

We've had discussions about red-haired mummies and American Indians who appeared to be caucasian, before.

They are probably still on the board.....somewhere.

The "search" feature for this board is as baffling as Bush's war policy so I stay away from it.
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Postby marduk » Fri Jan 19, 2007 12:07 pm

there are reports of the first polar explorers encountering white skinned eskimos as well
:lol:
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Postby Charlie Hatchett » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:12 pm

there are reports of the first polar explorers encountering white skinned eskimos as well


Really? :?
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Postby Digit » Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:26 pm

I kicked the subject off some time ago Gunny, the various arguments are under 'pre-Columbian settlement'.
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Postby marduk » Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:21 pm

Charlie Hatchett wrote:
Really? :?

http://www.svs.is/Vefsetur%20Vilhjalms% ... r1909.html
Fearless says people had a distinctly lighter complexion than any Eskimo he ever saw. Saw some whose skin (face) was as light as mine, several with hair ranging from mine to Mr. Hadley's (which is dark, but not black). Hair was, too, not so stiff as ordinary Eskimo and children's hair averaged lighter than grown people's, a thing true of whites, though I have seen no variation from the ordinary black among Eskimos except in newborn children.

how come there were white skinned eskimos here
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in 1912
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Postby Forum Monk » Fri Jan 19, 2007 3:11 pm

Minimalist wrote:The "search" feature for this board is as baffling as Bush's war policy so I stay away from it.


What are you talking about, this is Bush's war policy:

1. Send in troops
2. Take out anti-american leader
3. repeat...

:lol:
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Postby marduk » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:07 pm

almost
you missed out
1. Send in troops
2. Take out anti-american leader and win next presidential election
3. repeat
:wink:
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Postby Charlie Hatchett » Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:08 pm

http://www.svs.is/Vefsetur%20Vilhjalms%20Stefanssonar/ste/februar1909.html
Fearless says people had a distinctly lighter complexion than any Eskimo he ever saw. Saw some whose skin (face) was as light as mine, several with hair ranging from mine to Mr. Hadley's (which is dark, but not black). Hair was, too, not so stiff as ordinary Eskimo and children's hair averaged lighter than grown people's, a thing true of whites, though I have seen no variation from the ordinary black among Eskimos except in newborn children...how come there were white skinned eskimos here in 1912


Apparently, Whitey was all over the place. :wink:

Maybe not in huge numbers, but apparently enough to reproduce successfully. :?

I'll definitely read the ref you provided...thx.
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Postby Minimalist » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:14 pm

Apparently, Whitey was all over the place.



Ship-wrecked Vikings?

They can't have all been great sailors.
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Postby Charlie Hatchett » Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:16 pm

They can't have all been great sailors.


:P ...Good point.
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Postby Sam Salmon » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:15 pm

Lost my previous post. :roll:

Anyway this thread brings back memories of the late Barry Fell and his journey to northern BC.

He met some natives whom he said spoke a few words of some Euro/Celtic dialect and even tossed the caber.

I live in southern BC and have only travelled the Fraser Lake area once-didn't stop to investigate.

EDIT-Upon reflection I see that Fell never visited the area and relied on some rather dodgy info for his conclusions-
http://www.ydli.org/dakinfo/celticp.htm
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Postby Beagle » Fri Jan 19, 2007 8:12 pm

There's a name from the past! I never subscribed to Fells works, but he did start others becoming interested in etymology.

Fells' papers are still posted on the Etymology website, and there's a lot of good reading there.
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Postby clubs_stink » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:57 pm

Might I toss in the mysterious Melungeons?

"In April 1673, James Needham, an Englishman, and Gabriel Arthur, possibly an indentured servant, came with approximately eight Indians as explorers to the Tennessee Valley. There, Needham described finding "hairy people .... (who) have a bell which is six foot over which they ring morning and evening and at that time a great number of people congregrate togather and talkes" in a language not English nor any Indian dialect that the accompanying Indians knew. And yet these people seemingly looked European. Needham described them as "hairy, white people which have long beards and whiskers and weares clothing." This bell seems to me to speak of a Latin influence among these people. Later explorers found people who lived in log cabins with peculiar arched windows. Dr. Kennedy says that by the late 1700s they were practicing the Christian religion."

These people claimed that they were descended from a group of Portugese who had been shipwrecked or abandoned on the Atlantic coast, according to Byron Stinson in "The Melungeons." The term they used was "Portyghee." In other documents, some of these peoples were also described as having red hair and others with very distinctive blue or blue/green eyes. This description leads me to believe that these people were not Native American Indians. Altogether they must have been a striking looking people.
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